Item Preview Dust Sweeping

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Jhaman

Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Assuming you're running into a team that's purely physical damage - Thornmail/Sunfire Cape becomes the highest source of DPS for a tank. If you're a mana based tank, there's always the possibility of getting a Sheen and upgrading it to the Tank version of Sheen.



Eh. I'm not sure. Phantom Dancer will always be a good option, in my opinion - and there's nothing wrong with that. However, there's one or two items that let you specialize into more burst damage than PD at the cost of sustained damage.
Snuck that "TANK VERSION OF SHEEN." In there I see!!!


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Color Deaf

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reflexroar17 View Post
Seems a bit harsh for him but he will survive, that makes sense.

So I take it with HoG being removed on SR we will not see Lord Vandammes pillager on the rift? Thats a real shame in my opinion it seemed like AD casters were finally getting an item for them.
QSS has always been able to remove Skarner's ult; and from what Xypherous has said, items with HoG in their build path with be replaced with a ruby crystal.


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bob000

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Oh didn't realise you were up at this hour. But since you are can you elaborate on what aspect of spark you don't like? It certainly seems like a viable item (As opposed to noob trap) on a number of champions who can build on hit and if your goal is to push the it is more gold efficient than wits end. Off hand I can think of Teemo, Nunu, Shen, Volibear and Irelia.

What aspects does the replacement have that you prefer to the current Ionic Spark?


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TheTreeGod

Junior Member

11-10-2012

The people acting like you can buy an oracles and farm wards if multiple players pick up sight stones... That is a myth. It doesn't benefit you.

A jungler gets less gold and no exp by running around killing wards constantly rather than clearing jungle camps, which are going to give even more gold now. The main benefit of oracles CURRENTLY is it forces the opponent to waste 75 gold. It forces them to pay more to maintain vision or give up on it and accept the loss of vision which is just as powerful. With a sightstone they are never forced to pay more than the initial 650 gold which nullifies both those benefits. The only benefit remaining is the inefficient gold and no exp you're getting.

I don't understand why there can't be support only items, just force someone to go all the way down the Utility tree to unlock new items, such as the Sightstone... so you can have items like this to help supports, but not break the game and give everyone a one time cheap cost for game long vision. I think once you see top level players get ahold of this, people who understand the immense power of vision, you're going to realize how gamebreaking it is.


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Varxtis

Senior Member

11-10-2012

"Madred blood razor is a noob trap"

Oh? So that's why Its secretly cost efficient. By the time one builds a madred bloodrazor, the enemy has at least 2k hp. so that is 80 magic damage right there.


your getting 120 damage from the whole thing (80 magic and 40 ad)


415 x 12 = 4830 . Now you also get the attack speed which is 40 percent, thats around 1000. Then you have armor thats around 400. 4830 + 1000 + 400 = 6230

6230 - 3800 = 2430 cost efficiency.

(Now you may argue by saying the enemy will have Mr so the magic damage on madreds is lower than 4 percent, but likewise AD damage gets lowered by Armor, so the point still remain)

Anyone who can do math can tell that madreds is a very cost efficient item, even vs non tanks. I'm sad to see Madred bloodrazor leaving, but to say that it was a noob trap is tremendously false, and seems like a weak reason to get rid of it..

-P.S madreds is a very underrated item, and many are very misinformed of its potential-


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Lef

Junior Member

11-10-2012

@ Xypherous

I know its late there, so thank you for sticking around to answer questions.
There are so many hints in there, but I had a question about one in particular.
Did Warmog's pick up the FoN passive?


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GhostStalker

Senior Member

11-10-2012

any word on manamune?


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NotBuzzJack

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
No, it's just that Ionic Spark + Twisted Fate just raises questions rather than solves any of them.
I think what he was trying to say is that if a 4 hit proc is so conditional, then why does TF have one in his kit, as it doesn't really synergize with TF at all.
Probably not your area of expertise though.


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Lostshard

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostStalker86 View Post
any word on manamune?
Quote:
Manamune - Updated Item
  • Unique Toggle: Your basic attacks and single target spells drain an additional X% of your current mana and deal twice that amount in bonus magic damage over 2 seconds.
  • What Xypherous said for theory
See a S3 item list: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...php?p=31232235


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Analyze

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Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Not a dumb question at all. It's actually a tricky answer.

Ionic Spark is bad because it has a large set of conditions attached to it, some of which you can't control (whether you are doing well in the game or not, whether or not you can get 4 attacks in or not.)

However, if you fulfilled these conditions, the effect is worth the cost. Shen, for example, can force a situation where Ionic Spark is good for him... most of the time.

However, the problem in raw numerical buffs to an item is that it isn't the effect or the net result that is bad - it's that the conditionals are too harsh. For Ionic Spark specifically - Health is an odd conditional statistic that is great early game and terrible late game. The grouping and 4-hit conditional are really hard to resolve in most cases without the item simply tipping from conditionally good to always overpowered.

You also run into the problem where buffing an item so that more champions can use it well necessitates nerfs to the champion that uses it best. Let's say we buffed Ionic Spark so that everyone else can use it better. Where does this leave Shen, if he's balanced? Shen can buy other items and be good, so he's not completely reliant on Ionic Spark but he can use Ionic Spark awfully well (and in a balanced way.) However, raw buffing Ionic Spark in this context makes Shen a monster - which then necessitates Shen nerfs - which pretty much locks Shen to only buying Ionic Spark to stay relevant - which is kind of a terrible thing.
Really loving all the changes. Everything you're doing seems justified, however the one thing I don't necessarily agree with is the removal of MBR. You explained Ionic Spark, but didn't delve into the logic for removing MBR. The concept is great, why not just buff it so that it's no longer a "trap" item?