Item Preview Dust Sweeping

First Riot Post
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kyanos

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by topgunLT1 View Post
he did say spirit visage is getting buffs so lets see, and i hate tanks getting tanky cause they went after health instead of armour, its damn annoying cause i thought they would get armor and i stacked armor corruption build .
Dude there's still warmog and spirit visage already being an annoying boost to health regen and heal is getting buffed .
I think we will frgt abt force of nature cause i want to frgt it, since it was the only best option to get more MR to ur champion . Now hopefully more variety in MR build

health tanks are just as viable as armor tanks, and it made them harder to counter because you didnt know which way they were gonna go... or if they were gonna do a hybrid tank (AP or AD boosted tank)

with blade in and force out, and no viable replacement for force... health tanks are gonna be hard countered and pretty well non-existent if i read this right :|

last point - a majority of armor pen items work more effectively on a health tank than an armor tank. the only ones that dont are Last Whisper and Void Staff. and thats just because they apply percentages. typical armor tank has 2-300 armor and MR... typical health tank has 150-200 armor/MR... with just two items you can remove 80 armor off that, which halves their damage reduction or better.

the damage reduction for armor tanks was just more stable than health tanks... but health tanks could get back into the fights alot faster than armor tanks could. with force of nature out, that advantage over armor tanks is flat out gone, so it comes down to individual character synergy...


any rate, i did say i dont mind FoN getting removed. i just want a viable replacement for the regenerative aspect, because even with SV, if it goes up to 30% or even 50% its not going to be as effective as FoN was... and i really dont see them pushing the numbers that high.


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AntiSkillshot

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Most disappointed with the removal of FoN, the rest I understand. FoN was a core item on tanks (along side Warmogs).

I hope Spirit will get a decent large buff (like from 15% to either 20% or 25%, though, this might become broken on champions like Vlad or Warwick or anyother champion with inbuilt sustain) or i'll probably be never playing top again ~_~


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AxeRaider

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Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
We should be happy for this. MBR was a trap item - it is never, in any circumstances, the buy, as any character or against any opponent. If you were building this item, you've been weaker each game as a result. Same with Ionic spark (except maybe for Shen or Kayle).
waricks ult gain more dmg from madred bloodrazor than any other item.


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Haroovitnir

Member

11-09-2012

Maybe rather then removing these items they should just be added in a secret tab in Teemo's Grandpa's shop . these items are loved by many and offer no distinct advantage over the the regular item set. On the plus side new players wont get accustomed to these items and wont know about them until they are experienced enough to know their niche on the battle field.


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DaMiTzNhan

Senior Member

11-09-2012

What kind of high do you get from snorting your $$$$?

Because these are some ****ed up ideas


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

11-09-2012
16 of 56 Riot Posts

Quote:
On MTG / Trap Items / the "Bad Card" analogy
MtG has the space to use bad cards as part of their learning process? Why? The entire deck construction phase is testing your filtering skill as a player. Learning what cards work well with you and what cards don't work in the context of your 60 cards is something that is done in isolation - without time pressure - and fairly independent of the opponent.

While this is a skill that *can* be used to determine which player is better than the other, a real time game shouldn't test this facet - especially when trial and error has a very real cost to the current game that you're in. It's one of those 'We want you to focus on beating the opponent - not trying to figure out what bad items we put in to try to trick you or teach you a lesson.'

Quote:
for that matter why have atma's, guinsoo, snow ball items, malady, manamune, nashors, odyn's, soul shroud, or thorn mail. All of these items are newb traps except in niche rare circumstances...
I've given this criteria before on niche items - It has to appear like what it actually is - It actually has to be good and fulfill the purpose of what it actually looks like.

Thornmail, for example, works really well in this context. It's a niche armor counter for when they have multiple autoattacking AD. It's not a generalist pick - nor is it generally good - but when it works, it works well and exactly how you expect.

Ionic Spark doesn't work in this context. There's too many conditionals that you have to hop through to access the actual power of the item. From the multi-attack trigger, to the champion context - the conditionals make Ionic Spark too conditional to actually work.

That's not to say that multi-hit bounce chain lightning doesn't look awesome or feel cool. It definitely is and we'll definitely need to find a way to put that on something. However, something that gives health, takes 4 attacks to proc and deals a fixed amount of magic damage makes the effect niche-on-niche unnecessarily.

Quote:
Maybe rather then removing these items they should just be added in a secret tab in Teemo's Grandpa's shop . these items are loved by many and offer no distinct advantage over the the regular item set. On the plus side new players wont get accustomed to these items and wont know about them until they are experienced enough to know their niche on the battle field.
This doesn't work either. Items that perform similar functions nerf each other if they're in the same availability pool because they have to be balanced for the stacked case potential. True, you could make them non-stacking based on some kind of qualifier - but if the effects serve the same purpose in very different ways, you're never going to get to a good place. Imagine having the old Stark's and Zeke's in the same item pool. Both items have to suck as AS/LS auras because your team can have two of them - and deciding which aura should stack better is fairly arbitrary.


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HawksGoCAW

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Are there any plans for changing Frozen Heart? I think we've learned how crippling AS reduction can be (see Malphite's huge surge in popularity). But for the most part, you could avoid it by kiting while waiting for the effect to wear off.

Frozen Heart just grants AoE 20% AS reduction straight up and all you need to do is stand around. There's no cleansing. No waiting it out. Just bam. Your AD's damage output is reduced 20%.

Edit for more details:

It's frustrating to play against when you're a melee carry. Jax, Tryndamere, Master Yi, etc. You just watch your damage plummet, and because AS is hard capped, you can't just build more AS to counter it. It's even worse when it's 3v3 and everyone's a melee bruiser.


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Crowcide

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
I've given this criteria before on niche items - It has to appear like what it actually is - It actually has to be good and fulfill the purpose of what it actually looks like.

Ionic Spark doesn't work in this context. There's too many conditionals that you have to hop through to access the actual power of the item. From the multi-attack trigger, to the champion context - the conditionals make Ionic Spark too conditional to actually work.

That's not to say that multi-hit bounce chain lightning doesn't look awesome or feel cool. It definitely is and we'll definitely need to find a way to put that on something. However, something that gives health, takes 4 attacks to proc and deals a fixed amount of magic damage makes the effect niche-on-niche unnecessarily.
The condition would be being: irelia, ww, shen, voli, or mundo. The niche would be increasing damage for a skill that is an on-hit effect while simultaneously increasing tankiness for very cheap.


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Enyalus

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Xypherous, will Atmas be buffed or tweaked for S3, since a lot of items seem to be changing? It's still a gold efficient item, I'm just not sold that its slot efficient. I think that's why no one buys it anymore or its incredibly niche if they do.


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Steven Mcburn

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Senior Member

11-09-2012

It gives all the stats you want on a metagolem. Attack speed to help your atmas, Health to help your atmas, MAGIC AOE DAMAGE to be more of a threat, and even if left ignored you deal tons of damage to their team.