Item Preview Dust Sweeping

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Djinnandjuice

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Recruiter

11-09-2012

I am trying to figure out how sightstone wouldn't snowball top lane just as bad if not more so than HoG did.

say you are blue side
assuming you win the first fight to start the snowball, and can decently push the snowball effectively becomes

Back and buy sightstone.
Ward close to blue entrance. (gank lane 1 covered) ward tri (gank lane 2 covered) push hard to tower and sit in top far brush (gank lane 3 covered).

Enemy is fighting with tower for last hits and tower constantly resets lane.

If enemy jungler comes to help he either gets seen by the two wards or shown by your lane/creep vision. So you back off and let tower reset lane/waste jungle time.(maybe you take that time to pill and shop/ refresh wards)

Come back to lane. Repeat process. probably have higher cs since you aren't fighting tower for last hits, waste enemy jungler time if he comes to gank.

Off the top of my head this seems pretty ideal for vlad in particular, but also any manaless champ that can top. (garen, rumble, akali) and im sure any other character that can aggressively push even with mana could do the same as well.

Maybe I'm theorycrafting too much, but that looks like bad news.


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gitykins

Member

11-09-2012

Essentially, by removing some of these items, you intentionally pidgeonhole certain champions into static build paths. See new Irelia build with Ionic Spark. Be honest, Irelia can't do **** with the new Tiamat, I don't care what it is. You are forcing Irelia players to go back to TF, GA, Wit's End, Randuin's. For removing FoN, you are FORCING Singed players to build whatever new **** you have cooked up. I am very mad about the removal of these items.


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Jortalus

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Senior Member

11-09-2012

But...I really, really, REALLY liked Force of Nature. =(

It's my favorite defensive item.


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RIMH

Junior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Rafikerus View Post
HoG removed...Jungle nautilus becomes even weaker now...jungle rework is already going to hurt him alot.
People need to stop whining about the potential *hypothetical* weakness of so-and-so. Obviously Riot is doing some seriously creative out of the box stuff here. You're crying over a character being potentially bad based on the current itemization s/he's cornholed into based on the current (poor) layout of items. We have no idea what itemization or the jungle difficulty will look like. STFU.


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Nubyouup

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Junior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by hartar View Post
I mean wtf, nobody make avarice blade. Now you only have 2 gold per 10 itens.If there something that need to be removed is avarice blade, because trust me nobody, i said nobody, make avarice blade period.
In that case, no body makes the Leviathan, before playing this game for a while, I never even heard of the weapon, as well as seeing no one use it.


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Averath

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Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Heart of Gold Removed

Heart of Gold is a deeply conflicted item. Gold over Time items are designed to be a tradeoff of early game power versus reliable scaling further on in the game. However, Heart of Gold is a Health item, a statistic that is primarily dominant early game rather than late game. It helps create a lot to passivity, but worst of all it contributes to passive snowballing. While the intent of the item was to help out gold-starved characters that were traditionally weak, there are much better ways to solve this than an item that also makes their direct competitors stronger.

Alternative: The other Gold per 10 items

We dont want to see an item in the game that lets you passively win your lane and close off options for your opponent. The other 3 Gold per 10 items have all been upgraded with either much more flexible build paths in terms of what they can build into or additional ways to generate real and imagined incomes. From Gold per 10 upgrades that let you keep the Gold per 10 when fully upgraded to alternate gold gain passives, the other 3 Gold per 10 items have become much more flexible in their final builds.

-Xypherous
Is the Avarice Blade going to remain critical strike, or will you change it to actual AD to keep it on par with AP? One of the worries is that manaless AD Casters will have no real Gold per 10 item, and this is primarily because the physical damage Gold per 5 is useless to most characters in the game, due to not everyone scaling well off of crit.

It'd make sense to give it AD rather than Crit, considering you've stated you want to give more players options to pick up items.


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2 Swainz

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Xypherous, you also make it sound as if you could only build Ionic Spark OR Wits End, not both at the same time. CLG Wickd builds both items as his first two items on his world famous Irelia build. Are we only allowed one source of attack speed now?


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Jortalus

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Senior Member

11-09-2012

I love FoN and I love Ionic spark. Not necessarily for their power, but for their flavor. I like the lightning attack, and I like the idea of %based health regen on champs like Singed and Mundo. Will we be getting a replacement for the lightning effect, or any kind of %health regen in any new items/reworked ones?


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Ginga

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Recruiter

11-09-2012

Reposting just in case this was missed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Ionic Spark Removed

Ionic Spark is a bit of a confusing item right now. Ionic Spark only fully synergizes with one or two champions (Shen, Gangplank), but its good to have an effective wave clearing option for characters that lack an innate ability to quickly deal with waves of minions. For a proc-build, Ionic Spark is awkward because it grants a very inconsistent proc that does some damage but is inferior to Wits End in a lot of cases.

Alternative: Statikk Shiv, Tiamat, Wits End

Tiamat has been vastly upgraded as a passive wave clearing item, while Wits End has always been the traditionally stronger option for Attack Speed / On-hit builds.
I have a problem with this.


While I completely agree with you that Ionic Spark is an utterly inferior item...I, and a lot of others, wanted this item to be viable because it's F_U_N.

I was hoping you'd buff the item, or make the lightning damage scale with something, or give it a late game, or make the lightning proc out of ability damage just like the Lightning Shrine in Dominion.

Not outright remove it. Why couldn't it have been an Armoured version of Wit's End? Where instead of providing flat MR and bonus MR per hit, Ionic Spark could provide flat Armour and bonus Armour per hit? Why not give it an upgrade path to make it have some relevant late game teamfight presence?


You completely removed an item that's agreed to be incredibly weak on most champions...but it was also such a fun item. Will you be making an item similarly as fun as Ionic Spark in the future?("Statick Shiv"?) It's so sad to see it go.


PS - what about Avarice Blade? Can that item either be replaced with something else or changed to give something other than Critical Strike? I consider that to be the most awkward gp5 of the game.


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ploki122

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Djinnandjuice View Post
I am trying to figure out how sightstone wouldn't snowball top lane just as bad if not more so than HoG did.

say you are blue side
assuming you win the first fight to start the snowball, and can decently push the snowball effectively becomes

Back and buy sightstone.
Ward close to blue entrance. (gank lane 1 covered) ward tri (gank lane 2 covered) push hard to tower and sit in top far brush (gank lane 3 covered).

Enemy is fighting with tower for last hits and tower constantly resets lane.

If enemy jungler comes to help he either gets seen by the two wards or shown by your lane/creep vision. So you back off and let tower reset lane/waste jungle time.(maybe you take that time to pill and shop/ refresh wards)

Come back to lane. Repeat process. probably have higher cs since you aren't fighting tower for last hits, waste enemy jungler time if he comes to gank.

Off the top of my head this seems pretty ideal for vlad in particular, but also any manaless champ that can top. (garen, rumble, akali) and im sure any other character that can aggressively push even with mana could do the same as well.

Maybe I'm theorycrafting too much, but that looks like bad news.
The biggest differences that most people doesn't account for are :

1) The cash you generate HAS to be used on wards (You can't use the generation for items, and you might not use that many wards)
2) The extra safety isn't worth much (you have less HP than with HoG, less items because of #1, and wards can be removed, where with HoG, items can't)
3) Once you are out of wards, you have less than a Ruby crystal taking up one of your slots. If you ward 2 wards at a time, you will have to recall every 3-6 mins (which is an average time, but if you're snowballing you might like to extend it a bit), so you can ward 1 at a time, leaving a gank path open... So basically, it actually provides gameplay for the jungler instead of a to-do list...