Ashe questions about builds and dynamics.

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Lalf Hife

Junior Member

11-09-2012

I played the game a little bit back when it first launched and started again about a month ago. Im level 12, and I win more games than I lose, and typically have positive K/D ratio but not always, I always get a lot of assits, I only ever play as Ashe as I find her to be a great team player. I am just starting to really appreciate the dynamics of the game, and as I lvl up I felt like I should post a summary of what I do so that the experts can tell me if there is anything I could be doing better or anything I am just doing blatantly wrong so donít be afraid to tell me like it is haha.

Again I prefer to use Ashe as a team player: Fighting minions, using slows to save allies assist in killing enemies, so thatís the kind of build I am looking for.

Stats: To me it seems as if the most important Stats for Ashe are Movement speed and attack speed, movement speed because itís crucial to be able to escape a gank/chase an enemy with frost shot, and attack speed because it is more valuable than Attack Damage for farming (I think??) and being able to get off shots faster means frost shot is more effective. Correct me if I am wrong but attack speed effects not only the time between consecutive attacks but the time it takes for Ashe to make her first attack, therefore making running/shooting more effective.

Abilities: Only question I have about abilities is with hawkshot. I always get Volley whenever possible, and then usually frost shot and save HS for last, but is it efficient to lvl HS before FS due to the gold? I donít think so but I am not a number cruncher. I know a little bit of extra gold can dramatically change the game, but the level of slowdown of frost shot can save lives (especially yours).

Items: I used to get boots+3 potions but recently I have found Doranís blade to be a more effective starter. I typically prioritize the Phantom Dancer build as I mentioned Movement/Attack Speed are vital, and then the banshees veil. I have grown fond of the Nashors tooth and its served me well, but I also wonder if this item is lost on Ashe as 2 of her abilities are unaffected by ability power, and one has no cooldown. I have been told the Bloodthirster is good but I rarely buy it, it seems like saving up for a trinity force is more effective. Is it worth it to buy 2 Phantom Dancers? Why is the Last Whisper recommended for Ashe?

Strategy: The main rule I have learned with Ashe is to not die. Always be safe, if unsure about a situation (and a teammate does not need saving) RETREAT, never charge an enemy down by yourself, and never push passed the first T by yourself. Honestly my favorite part of the game is farming, which I have gotten rather good at. Is killing minions worth it tho? I go for champions when the circumstances provide it, but I focus priority on killing minions. Again the macro level effects of the game are new to me, so does killing minions (ie helping your minions advance) actually help your team? Or is it far more efficient to focus attention on enemy champions? To reiterate what I basically do is farm in lanes, and keep an out for any team mates that need saving or need help ganking, this usually gets me a ratio around 1/1/3 but that could just be luckÖ

Spells: I got a lot of **** using smite to farm so now I use Ghost and Clarity for mana. (I spam volley a lot and run low on mana)

Sorry that was kinda long, Thanks Guys


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Attack damage is the most useful stat for farming.

But when it comes to the full-build, you maximize your damage with a good mix of attack damage, attack speed, critical chance, and armor penetration.


One of the core items to Ashe builds (and most ADCarries) is Infinity Edge. Infinity Edge gives you attack damage, critical chance, and most importantly, it makes your criticals hit harder.

Now, here's why Trinity Force is not a good build on Ashe. Trinity Force is a great item, and it's one of the most gold-efficient items. But in order for you to unlock its gold efficiency, your champion has to make use of most of its stats. So what on Ashe do you make use of in a Trinity Force?

Trinity Force is built out of three items. Zeal, Sheen, and Phage.

First, let's talk about Zeal. Zeal gives us attack speed, crit chance, and movement speed. These are all good, but we're going to end up building a phantom dancer anyway, right?

Next, Sheen. The mana could be helpful. But that's it. The only ability Ashe has that scales with AP is her ultimate, and at best that's an 80 second cooldown (and there's no guarantee it hits anything), so you're not adding a lot of damage with AP. Moreover, Ashe's shortest cooldown is a rank 5 Volley, at 4 seconds. This isn't a great ability to necessarily spam though. So you're not unlocking the Phage passive at full force.

And finally, Phage. Health never hurts, but it's not a top priority on AD Carries. The attack damage is nice, but what you get compared to what you pay for AD just isn't as good as what it could be. And the passive? The passive is actually worse than Ashe's Frost Shot.

So there's no reason to build Trinity Force on Ashe.



A typical Ashe build looks like this: Infinity Edge, Phantom Dancer, Bloodthirster, Last Whisper, Guardian Angel, and boots.


Last Whisper is a recommended item for Ashe because of its 40% armor penetration. If Ashe attack a target with 100 armor, Last Whisper will ignore 40 of it, so it's like they only have 60 armor. This means Ashe does a lot more damage to that target. If you find that people aren't building armor, just build a second Phantom Dancer.


EDIT: As for spells, I'd use Flash instead of Ghost, and Ignite instead of Clarity. Conserve mana by spamming fewer spells. Most of Ashe's damage will come from her auto-attacks. The rest of her abilities exists to keep enemies in auto-attack range for longer periods of time.


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darthheter24

Junior Member

11-09-2012

On your abilities volley maxed first hawkshot second and frost arrow last but taking one point at lvl 2 imo....for hawk shot it gives gold and a temporary Ward for dragon or if you don't know if the jungler is going to gank or mid is mia


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Hirumonogatari

Senior Member

11-10-2012

you need AD more than ASPD. in teamfights, you are not going to be able to sit still and attack for very long. each shot has to count for a lot, and that's where AD comes in.

also, the general idea for me would be to get sustainability in lane, then build towards IE. some people advocate BT first, but that is a situational item in my opinion.

starting with boots + 3 pots is pretty standard. it gives you sustainability in lane and that extra movement speed to dart in and out of enemy attack range. it also allows you to dodge skillshots better (unless you're playing from oceania like me, the ping gurantees you eat every single skillshot)

on my back, i assess the situation. if i'm doing extremely well in lane, i go straight for a BF sword. otherwise, i get two doran's blades. doran's blades gives you extra hp, life leech and extra AD to give you that little edge over your opponent. i also get a couple more pots (3 max) if needed. at this point i will also upgrade my boots to berserker's greaves for the added mobility and attack speed.

the first big item i run is infinity edge. Most people run either infinity edge or Bloodthirster. My choice of Infinity edge is based on ashe's passive crit, as well as the fact that the two items mean radically different things. a bloodthirster is great for laning. it gives you massively increased lifesteal, and extra AD for every minion killed. when do you kill lots of minions? laning phase. by contrast, IE is better suited for teamfight situations. In my experience laning ends around level 11 and teamfight phase starts. therefore i prefer IE over BT.

after my IE i get a zeal. the increased crit rate and increased movement speed is useful to complement my IE, and my lack of escapes.

after the zeal i stop to assess the enemy items. If they are stacking armour heavily at this point (rushing frozen heart or rushing thornmail, and at least 2 of them) i get a Last Whisper for the armour penetration. Otherwise i continue to build my Phantom Dancer for even more crit and movement speed.

With an IE and a PD, your base crit rate is 55%. that's a crit more than half the time. add your ashe passive to the mix and your first hit will always hit for 400+ damage, which is pretty good value.

after my IE and PD i stop to look at items and enemy team composition. If they have high armour, LW for the armour pen. I would also go LW against generally tanky champs like malphite and rammus, even if they did not build armour. otherwise, i now get my BT.

If the game goes long and i have my core items (greaves, IE, PD, LW and BT) i start assessing the situation. most teams are smart enough to know that they have to take out the AD carry, which is you in this case. If they are diving you hard, get a Guardian Angel so you don't drop like a leaf. If they are still clueless and continue to attack tanks, get a second PD to almost gurantee 100% crits. Most of the time i find Guardian Angel to be more suitable.


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LivesInPyramid

Junior Member

11-10-2012

Your build order may change depending on your support and the enemy bot lane. If you're playing with an aggressive support and you're winning your lane, going straight for a BF sword would be a good idea -- if you're losing or you aren't zoning them out of CS, going 2 doran's + a vampiric scepter would be a good idea. This is good against certain matchups like graves that have great burst damage so you can sustain yourself in lane much better. Your next item should be IE followed by zeal, last whisper/phantom dancer and a bloodthirster. Your final item depends again on team composition, if you have a team with good peelers (champions with lots of CC that are good at stopping enemies in their tracks when they dive you) then you can go for more offense; if you feel unsafe and are getting dived and killed quickly in teamfights a GA, QSS or BV would help you greatly depending on the enemy team comp.

The important thing to realise about the current states of AD carries is that their builds rarely vary, it's the build order that matters. Hopefully the S3 changes will make it so that AD carries have more itemisation options, but the way I see it there will always be a "most optimal build" for right click AD carries and that's not going to change.

For summoner spells flash is a must on ashe given that you are really squishy and you have no natural escapes. You have some more choice with your second summoner, you can either go ignite if you feel like you can snowball your lane or you can go cleanse if they have massive amounts of CC... heal makes it so you can win trades (if you activate it before you get ignited), and exhaust is for dueling the enemy AD carry.

Finally, about ability order -- this is where I think ashe falls off as an AD carry. Imo AD carries should be about providing as much damage as possible, but ashe's kit (aside from her passive) makes it so that she provides more utility than damage. Don't get me wrong, she has great CC and one of the best initiates in the game, I just don't feel like an AD carry needs that (on a side-note, my favourite AD carry is tristana because of her late-game scaling and ridiculous AS steroid), especially when she has such a fragile laning phase. I usually prioritise my W for farming/damage followed by frost arrow and hawkshot last. If I feel like laning phase might extend to 25 minutes I might prioritise hawkshot over frost arrows, but this doesn't usually happen anyway. At any rate, I like to have 2 points in volley and a point in frost arrows and hawkshot each by level 4 then I leave hawkshot at level 1 until I max the rest of my skills.

Note that while last hitting is very important on most champions, it's even more important on AD carries, especially someone like ashe that relies solely on items for her damage. A good goal to aim for is 90-100 minions by 10 minutes (this takes in account the minions you lose going back to buy items/healing from a gank, etc.).


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Kaalika

Senior Member

11-10-2012

I tend to prioritize q over w after I get 3 points in w, just because it feels to me that Ashe isn't doing enough damage anyway so the slow is worth more so they stay in range long enough to be killed instead of just getting away. Is that a good tactic or should I level w all the way to 5 first?


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Lalf Hife

Junior Member

11-11-2012

Awesome thanks everybody this was very helpful! I look forward to using what Ive learned, I always wondered what made IE so important.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

11-11-2012

By the way, I think you said "2 of your abilities don't scale to AP" which would imply you think 2 abilities do scale to AP?

I want to explain this real quick so you understand on any other champs you play.

Most champions have abilities that scale either to AP or to AD. When the number is green (like Ashe's ultimate) it scales to AP. When the number is orange (like Ashe's W), it scales to AD.

Other champions have abilities that scale to other stats, but the other stats are so rare that it is explained explicitly on the champion in game. Some of these examples include Volibear, Shen, and Vladmir, who all have abilities that scale to health. Rammus and Malphite scale to armor. Galio scales to magic resistance. Ryze scales to mana.