Statikk Discusses Preseason Jungle Changes

First Riot Post
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MatrixMan78

Junior Member

11-09-2012

I think it will just make more of the squishy jungles and the champs which are already low tier jungles drop off. I am afraid we will see more jungling by beefy champs disolving it down to which tank is the best jungle and team comps will be based around tanking up and not how skillful can you be WITH your team. The new desige to TT has already shifted that way and god forbid if you dont have 2 tanks on your team.


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Oprahs Treadmill

Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante Redgrave View Post
I guess now the junglers will have to have people help them attack the hell out of the target before they smite it. Makes them less likely to gank so early do to lower health. Well thought-out Riot.
You just actually pointed out another flaw. This will DRAMATICALLY affect bot lane and based on your view of the map it will screw over the adc from some cs and "Bot sided" will have an advantage almost every time.
- "Top sided" (view of map where your base is top right, "Purple" I think) will be "leashing" and taking more damage as adc/supp/mid (normally) thus maybe making them back for all the damage they now must exchange and therefore denying the adc/mid more cs than they normally do.
- "Bot sided" (opposite of top sided) adc will be fine and will then start to out cs

The ONLY thing that will make "Top sided" have an advantage is if they have a jungler that starts at Red/ "Bot sided" has a jungler who starts at red and well let's face it, there aren't a lot of champs that do that. So "top sided" adc is screwed...

Was this clearly thought thru when making these changes?


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Claous

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Senior Member

11-09-2012

This will be different


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GoliothOnline

Senior Member

11-09-2012

The one concern I have with this, is simply the change to champions like Skarner and Hec as their main role is to be a jungle ganker... However now that their roles have been diminished, simply aoe'ing is no longer a factor to quickly kill the entire camp, though useful on the smaller minions, doesn't help - nor benefit as much, against the larger camp dwellers...

To my understanding, making the mobs tougher (IE +Health +DMG) and removing the ability to effective leash for your team mates, means that champions like Skarner and Hecarim (Who are naturally squishy until later in their build, when they pick up +health items) are going to OOM faster, deal less DMG to mobs than B4 and take more DMG in return because of leash-neutering.

My question is : What can be done (if anything) to ensure that long time "Junglers" such as Skarner, don't fall off harder than they already have (unfortunately) due to their lack of single target DMG (without sheen, which if wasn't a part of your build B4, NEEDS TO BE now) and have their AOE DMG abilities confidently taken without fear of utter uselessness and self-gimping.


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Hidden Sniper

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Senior Member

11-09-2012

So... In other words...

You are going back to season 1 jungle? Because most of these things are reverts of your season 2 changes. It's like... You nerfed their difficulty/xp, and now are buffing them again.

I also hope you re-buff junglers you nerfed due to your new jungle in season 2 MADE TO MAKE THEM JUNGLE BETTER IN THE FIRST PLACE. Like Alistar, he didn't really jungle in season 1, and your changes in season 2 opened the jungle up to him, and a bunch of other champions. Then the nerf hammer came on those who actually could jungle because the jungle got changed (who were left untouched for AGES due to them being perfectly balanced before). Seriously, I wonder why you keep ****ing with the jungle, because ultimately it just pisses off 10-20% of your community every time. There is a good saying: "Don't fix what isn't broken". And you guys have a habit of doing that, probably to try and make the game "fresh, and new", which isn't bad, but there are always other things you can fix, instead of trying to re-invent the wheel several times over.

Also, revert your stupid nerfs on WW (nerfs is plural, one nerf on his Q wasn't even in the patch notes, so the cost has gone up twice as well as the damage going down). He can't use his Q in jungle unless he has blue buff anymore. Jayce can do more damage, for half as much mana, AND HE REGAINS MANA ON HIT. Why is WW so imbalanced in lane that he deserves that treatment also semi-hurting his jungling but not jayce?


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Shaya

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Senior Member

11-09-2012

I doubt I'd get a reply but...
what about Shaco...?

What happened to Shaco has almost brought me to quitting (he feels more useless than any point of history of me playing this game and he's been my baby since early season 1).

I know his design had too much synergy with the new jungle (like him being able to get both buffs @1 [which he could do old jungle but would require an extremely specific rune page], red buff stuff etc) and I've honestly only gotten bitter ever since this jungle came out, and even doubly so when he lost all of his damage and still retained a terrible jungle clear speed (which was also made worse on multiple occasions)... But what does these changes really mean for my favourite champion? I doubt a jungler who can barely compete with weak creeps would suddenly be stronger (although him actually being able to make income is probably a huge buff) without several nerfs reverted or a lot of design changes... Really though, he isn't Shaco with 60 seconds jitbs that don't even deal more than 2 ticks of damage to anyone with boots 1 or higher, along with ALL of the MANY MANY mechanic changes that have killed all of his old tricks.


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DemonicSpawn

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Member

11-09-2012

This kinda makes leashing pointless, no more super leashes T_T. Im curious to see what these new jungle items are though, if they combat the disadvantage of jungling with high dmg creeps well enough then jungle probably won't change too much if not i would suggest nerfing the health of the little creeps at each camp, in this way:
- AoE junglers are still viable because dmg can be reduced over all by taking out the little creeps early

- You still get the effect you want because all the creeps still deal more dmg overall leaving the jungler with less health to play around with in ganking.

Also these changes put more emphasis on counter jungling rather then ganking. Since jungle is harder to accomplish playing ranged focus champions (such as gangplank, with wards) would let you steal jungle early game and deny the other teams jungle so hard it makes him worthless... think about amumu without blue... it's also promoting early game jungle skimishes so cv will be used more.


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Airoe

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Member

11-09-2012

I'm so excited for S3! Can't wait to try out these changes.


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PianoConspiracy

Senior Member

11-09-2012

One condition: Please revert Skarner nerf.


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Blackout376

Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Statikk View Post
No the leashing that currently happens on Live will no longer exist, but we've found that teammates still stick around as long as they can to apply as much damage as possible before leaving for their lanes -- still helps the jungler out a ton.
I may be wrong but doesn't getting rid of leashing defeat the proposed goal of making more champions viable in jungle? If low-sustain junglers can't defer from damage by getting a leash then how are they supposed to jungle on a competitive level? the point of a leash wasn't really the early damage on the jungle monster, it was to avoid damage FROM the jungle monster and with the buffs in damage you're giving to the jungle monsters the leash is going to be needed more than ever. I realize you want to change up the meta but I really don't think you're doing yourselves any favors as far as your goals of making more junglers viable for competitive play if you get rid of leashing as it is now.