Statikk Discusses Preseason Jungle Changes

First Riot Post
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heretician

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Junior Member

11-09-2012

Unlike most others, I really like the changes and generally approve of them. As I mainly use AP hopefully this makes another mage champion or two viable to jungle

Looking forward to S3, thanks so much for the jungle update!!


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Lukiner

Senior Member

11-09-2012

make Elise and Diana jungle more ****ed up or impossible to jungle as those ap assassin girls and I will find everyone responsible for making this.... and punish hard


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CKas

Junior Member

11-09-2012

Am I the only one that thinks the concept of making leashing impossible, with increased damage to the jungle on top of that is a pretty bad idea? Riot, you are making Jungling:

A) Nearly impossible to do without runes so someone who's lower level cannot even attempt to jungle (it is hard enough already). In addition to people who have smurfs that want to get better by leveling a new account.

B) Extremely difficult for champions that have low defense to begin with (squishy junglers).

C) Too strong for champions that can easily adjust and out-level all the laners, giving some unfair advantages to sustain junglers that can carry pretty hard, as they will have a much stronger presence in ganks and fights than they did already.

Overall I don't like the combo of these two changes, it will INSANELY change how jungling is played and who can and can't effectively do it. I know your aim was to only increase the number of viable junglers, and that is being done in a sense. However, you are decreasing the existing roster of strong junglers, and replacing some existing names on that list with ones that are not considered to be good before this patch. This change also forces EVEN HIGHER skill cap on the jungling position.

Other thoughts:

The wraiths, are now not as worth the time for mid's to farm, and makes counter-jungling less effective because the wraiths fail to be a super important part of the route.

The double golems will be extremely difficult for bottom lane to pick up in laning phase because of the reduced kiting. Getting these golems or often starting at these golems for bottom lane makes the difference in a fight between the ADC that got them versus the ADC that didn't, or hasn't been getting them at all. Give some thought to that.

For top lane, getting double golems and wolves is even harder than it was previously early on, especially for ap casters that play top like vlad/swain and early squishy bruisers.

Adding all these changes together is DRASTICALLY changing the dynamics of the game, overthrowing entirely the current meta in respect to anything doing with the jungle. I am not a huge fan of these changes at all. Individually, I can see what each change can do to help the position of jungling and its dynamics, but coupled together, its like shaving your head completely after having a mullet for 10 years. Its just too much of a change all at once.

My suggestions: Leave alone the ability to leash. Some junglers really need it. Consider messing with jungle timers a little instead of some of the other things you mentioned. Rethink your conclusions about early ganking. It is some junglers absolute job to be able to do that, and others function just as effectively to the team comp as a super-tank with cc depending on the champions in the other-roles.
I must bring up that Warwick is still pretty good in the jungle for many team comps and he can't gank very well until level 6. His late game is godly, but early on, struggles to be useful. The opposite would be lee sin or shaco that dominates early, but tends to fall off a little later on. Its all based on team comps and it is the jungler's duty to choose a champion that works for it. This skill develops with knowledge of the game and gets better with time.
Equally, people must develop skills to avoid getting ganked too early. They need to know who their enemy jungler is and act accordingly. Learning when to ward, where to ward and how to position themselves to avoid getting ganked early are all skills that is the laners' job to develop. Again, this comes with experience and knowledge of the game but gets better as they continue to play. It is the laner's job to learn how to avoid early ganks, not riots job to nerf them.

I just really hope you all know what you are doing. I enjoy jungling myself and if these changes end-up being baptism by fire into the new meta, jungling might become something I will start to avoid. Thanks anyways guys. I'm still faithful to this game, and you won't lose me over this.


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RaylinLorac

Junior Member

11-09-2012

How effectively can mid laners like Annie and Ryze jungle with the new items? I'm hopeful that more squishy champions can jungle with the item rework but skeptical because of the jungle creep buffs that will be implemented.

I know ad casters seem to have a big buff coming up, how will champions like Talon fair in this new jungle?


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Bestieler

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Junior Member

11-09-2012

well i can see leashing will be still aviable, just hold the jungler attacks and the team mate leash from afar, making ranged champs still necesary to leash (cait can land several hits before the golem harm her) then the jungler enter taking damage without restarting the golem that will be at least not full heal, (we dont see anymore dancing golems after a leash, a good one), next think i see profitable is to see what items stats are going to be given to junglers, they will probably say (works only on neutral monsters) this would finish the early presure on the lanes but when upgraded they would lost this restriction. then we must see if shaco will be the king of the ganking or even eve will be that presure monster that she can be this if they are even viable as junglers anymore


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GrizlakMonger

Member

11-09-2012

I like the idea that mid can get that jungle (spirit stone) item for cheesy 5 minute dragon. That kind of variety keeps players on their toes. Its so easily punishable by the other team that I don't think you need to adjust the item for it. A farming item would not be that great for your ap carry who you want to be melting champs as early as possible. Generally mages are highest dps mid game while ad carries take over later, so why itemize for mid game farming unless running a specific strat? And thats the point, keep the items flexible so some crazy team like TPA or IG can blow our minds with a cheesy strat in a big tourney.


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RedBarons

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Junior Member

11-09-2012

jungle panth might finally not fall off post 25min without kills!


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TheDevineWaffull

Junior Member

11-09-2012

Phreak supports this thread


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bushviper336

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coreffoh View Post
Doesn't change at all really. If both blue buffs get stolen (Aka a successful invade) then your jungle is behind for a while anyway. It's a risk. It always is.
but they wont be that far behind unlike the new jungle where the mobs hit harder at the start and it increases as time goes by the jungler will have a problem all game


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arizonabay96

Junior Member

11-09-2012

I'm wondering how Amumu will fit in to this new jungle. I jungle Amumu in about 50% of my games and this thread is making me think that he won't be as viable after the patch.