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Junglers Question. Mid wants my blue. His/Her right or privelege?

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Sephïroth

Senior Member

11-09-2012

I'm only arguing for Amumu because he's the only jungler out of the like 10 I jungle with that requires any blue.

Totally agree you should try and steal their blue buff, that's my goal every game. Problem is, I generally play with people who ward well. Enemies and frenemies like. (I just had to add frenemies to Google spell correct btw.) Stealing blues just isn't as easy as it used to be.

The only way I can get away with it(Minus those games where you're obviously against a bad jungler) is either killing their closest lane and having more power than their jungler (Which as amumu is pretty durn hard early game.) OR counter gank their jungle and get him out of the question.

As far as I know, Malphite, Skarner, Rammus all need that second blue but the third one is a no brainer. Malphite can jungle without blue... but its kind of... yeah ew.

You have a great point about mid ganking though. The only problem I have with this is I play a lot of solo que. I don't dare rely on them to carry me or carry other lanes for that matter.


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LogicalTautology

Senior Member

11-09-2012

If you get a Philo as your first item, Rammus does fine without the second Blue.


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PapaShongo53

Senior Member

11-09-2012

I jungle a lot. Jungle and mid are my main roles. The only time I really want blue and ask for it in mid is I'm Orianna, Syndra, or Karthus. The first two go through mana like crazy, Karthus I like it for the CDR so I can ult more.

As a jungler, I will give blues to my mid when I can. I prefer ganking junglers over farmers, mainly Shaco, but play most junglers. Every blue I assess the game to determine if I'm giving it to mid or taking it.

If my early ganks have gone well, I will usually give my 2nd one to mid as I am ahead. If I am behind in XP I will take it purely for the XP so I can gank more without having to go back, which would put me further behind.

If I took the enemy blue, I will almost immediately go to my blue and give it to the mid.

If my mid is dominating, even if I'm behind and could really use it, I give it them so they can dominate more. If my mid is sucking, I will take it regardless as I don't want the enemy mid or jungler to end up with our blue buff.

If the buff is up, and mid is dead or too far away to get it, and I fear it will get counter-jungled, I will take it immediately to get it off the map so the enemy team doesn't get it.

Even junglers like Lee Sin and Shyv might need the 2nd or 3rd blue buff if they got far behind just for XP.

TL;DR
Every time the blue is up is a different situation and needs to be evaluated. In general, it is the jungler's call but in the end it is the team's buff and needs to go to who can put it the best use.


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KryTek

Junior Member

11-09-2012

I always give my second blue (not if the mid doesnt require mana), its important for him to have the ressource to poke the enemy/push the lane, But, it have some exception. If your mid is doing bad, constantly dying for example, you should not give it to him. Or, if you are behind in levels for any reason, you should get it for the experience.


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Sephïroth

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
LogicalTautology:
If you get a Philo as your first item, Rammus does fine without the second Blue.


He can, its just slower. I feel like ganking is Rammus' strong point, and without blue his clear time suffers a lot, and he has to go back after a gank opposed to reclearing his jungle and ganking again.

I will agree he can get away with it, but I always take it because it increases his speed and allows for him to gank much faster, as I will also be 6 it allowing me to spam my ultimate to clear very quickly red and gank mid.

I normally explain this before I start the game, and if they really do whine I will give them second on him.


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OriginalJack

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Skarner and Malph do not NEED their 2nd blue either. Sure, it helps but the majority of mids can put it to better use. When I play skarner or malph or any other jungler I always plan to give the 2nd blue to the mid with a couple of exceptions (see below). I do not play jungle amumu so I will have to take your word for it that he needs his 2nd blue really badly.

Exceptions:
1. there is a manaless mid (like kat or mord) and I am playing a jungler that uses mana
2. mid is doing terribad and is very likely to just feed it to the other team
3. I have been counter-jungled really hard I'm significantly behind the rest of the team, typically this means having lost 3 camps or more to the enemy but it depends on the situation
4. the mid doesn't respond to my pings to come get blue in a timely manner. I always ping when blue is up so the mid has lots of time to shove their lane and the longer the blue sits there the higher the chance that somebody might try to counter jungle it.


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Sephïroth

Senior Member

11-09-2012

I can concede they don't NEED it, I just find in solo que its more beneficial to take it yourself.


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OriginalJack

Senior Member

11-09-2012

I'm of the mindset that you should still give away the 2nd blue (keeping in mind the exceptions I mentioned above) even if it's solo queue but I'm not going to bash you for playing how you want to. Either way the mid laner certainly shouldn't be harassing you for not giving it to them, it's not like there's a rule in the summoner's code that says they own it or anything.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Reimie:
I'm only arguing for Amumu because he's the only jungler out of the like 10 I jungle with that requires any blue.

Then, as I explained before, don't run Amumu when your mid is a champion that will benefit greatly from blue buff.

If you see a Kat or a Mordekaiser in mid lane, you don't need to give them blue, so keep it for yourself. There are also mana-using mids that don't benefit quite as much from blue as others. But there are also mids that become exceptionally strong with blue buff.

So my suggestion is don't take Amumu when you know your mid is going to want blue. Stop making it about you and your blue buff and start making it about the team and the team's blue buff.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Reimie:
As far as I know, Malphite, Skarner, Rammus all need that second blue but the third one is a no brainer. Malphite can jungle without blue... but its kind of... yeah ew.


I'm not sure about Skarner.

Malphite builds Philosopher stone and is fine.

Rammus not only builds Philosopher Stone, but also builds Wriggle's Lantern. Rammus' first clear is slow, but between Wriggles procs and the speed between camps with his Q, he becomes very fast after the first clear.


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