A Suggestion: More Boots

123
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ChampStat

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
Huh, maybe Sonic Nova was right about me having a following.
Not really a following, but anyone who spends substantial time in Item discussion(such as myself) can't help but notice that you and axesandspears are like the only people here who actually know which things would be bad-apart from Xyph, of course.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

JustMyBassCannon

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChampStat View Post
Not really a following, but anyone who spends substantial time in Item discussion(such as myself) can't help but notice that you and axesandspears are like the only people here who actually know which things would be bad-apart from Xyph, of course.
I know, I'm just teasing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vuther View Post
Xypherous specifically mentioned the new passive of Seraph's Embrace is OK to have despite blatantly taking from Blitzcrank's passive concept because Blitz's passive is very useful, but not dramatically character-defining... unlike Nidalee's passive.
Well, the main reasoning I can come up with for that mana passive is the fact that champions' mana pools are limited between 600-1450 without items. At maximum, if someone caught you off guard at the start of the fight as Janna, you might get a little more than 700 shield. And who the hell is going to build that on Janna in the first place?

I find it pretty character-defining, but at the same time, the requirements for it to be effective are also very limited, making it still a niche tool. The two champions I can see wanting it consistently are Singed and Ryze.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uberpuma View Post
I read your thread, and it explained a little bit about why a lot of these types of ideas wouldn't work, thank you. Out of curiosity, could the jungle boots bonus movement speed be calculated differently than regular movement speed? Have it add the flat 40 or so movement speed at the end of all flat and percentage calculations? That way people with percentage boosts wouldn't be able to abuse the boost so heavily.
Well, that'd be nice, but I'm not sure if Riot would want to specifically add non-stacking flat move speed bonuses like that; it seems like a whole lot of work, and it would still be really effective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uberpuma View Post
As for Nidalee, her passive already permits her to move quickly, one could almost accomplish the same speed issue with boots of swiftness, but she would have constant speed 3 across the map with the additional speed from her passive in bushes. With the bush boots she would get an additional 20 movement speed, but only in bushes and only for 1-2 seconds upon exiting them. The rest of the time outside of bushes the boots are only speed 2s, it honestly doesn't seem to be too bad to me. Speed but with a drawback, just as mobility boots give you the highest form of speed but it is taken away if you take damage. Please let me know if I am missing something crucial in this thought process, just wanna learn.
First and foremost, almost nobody buys Boots of Swiftness; they can do without the slight mobility boost for stats that specifically help their class. If they want more mobility on top of boots with stats, there are %MS items to make up for the 20 flat MS that Swifts offer.
Second, there's plenty of brush on the map. Yes, it's not everywhere, but it is in a lot of choke point locations. It's true that it's situational mobility, just like Nid's passive, but it's a rather large increase in mobility at that.
Third, it's just the very specific nature of the suggestion. When items like this are suggested, they're usually for a select few, either a portion of one champion class or even just three or four champions who could benefit from it. The thing about making an item with a specific nature is that it either ends up balanced based on that champion (and thus too weak for anyone else to want), or it ends up being balanced based on all champions (and thus too powerful on the specific champion/s).


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Uberpuma

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Junior Member

11-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
I know, I'm just teasing.

Well, the main reasoning I can come up with for that mana passive is the fact that champions' mana pools are limited between 600-1450 without items. At maximum, if someone caught you off guard at the start of the fight as Janna, you might get a little more than 700 shield. And who the hell is going to build that on Janna in the first place?

I find it pretty character-defining, but at the same time, the requirements for it to be effective are also very limited, making it still a niche tool. The two champions I can see wanting it consistently are Singed and Ryze.

Well, that'd be nice, but I'm not sure if Riot would want to specifically add non-stacking flat move speed bonuses like that; it seems like a whole lot of work, and it would still be really effective.

First and foremost, almost nobody buys Boots of Swiftness; they can do without the slight mobility boost for stats that specifically help their class. If they want more mobility on top of boots with stats, there are %MS items to make up for the 20 flat MS that Swifts offer.
Second, there's plenty of brush on the map. Yes, it's not everywhere, but it is in a lot of choke point locations. It's true that it's situational mobility, just like Nid's passive, but it's a rather large increase in mobility at that.
Third, it's just the very specific nature of the suggestion. When items like this are suggested, they're usually for a select few, either a portion of one champion class or even just three or four champions who could benefit from it. The thing about making an item with a specific nature is that it either ends up balanced based on that champion (and thus too weak for anyone else to want), or it ends up being balanced based on all champions (and thus too powerful on the specific champion/s).
I see, thank you for the explanation.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sonic Nova

Senior Member

11-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
Huh, maybe Sonic Nova was right about me having a following.

Anyway, thanks for saying what I was already going to say. And here's the thread he's referring to.

Interesting concept, but you do realize that it would be really powerful on champions with move speed synergy effects, right? Rengar, Garen, Nidalee (whose passive is this except %, so it would stack hugely), a laundry list of junglers...It would be a lot more powerful than you think on several champions.
Ya, you have a following dude. XP

Anyways, I've, of my own choice, decided to take a step back on repetitive item concepts. I will start with the item concepts that I've seen before and then proceed with the ones I haven't.

Armor Pen Boots: They really don't need to be implemented, as there is already a balance in penetration items between AD and AP. For AD you have Youmou's Ghostblade, Last Whisper, and Black Cleaver (reduces armor, making it a pseudo-armor pen item). For AP you have Sorcerer's Boots, Void Staff, and Abyssal Scepter (reduces armor via aura, like Black Cleaver, makes it a pseudo-magic pen item). AP has one more penetration item over AD, but it's hardly ever used and it's a dead end early to mid game item, the Haunting Guise (which a lot of people agree is a horrible item anyways). Armor pen boots would just create unbalance between AD and AP champs, so for now, berserker's grieves will just have to suffice (which isn't a bad item at all).

I actually haven't see any of the other boot suggestions you've made before. So I'll critique from my own standpoint.

Lifesteal Boots: There is already a lot of lifesteal items in the game right now, all of which have their own advantages over just stats (executioner's calling, has an active that applies grievous would, great in timefights when used on the enemy carry; bilgewater cutlass, has an active which deals damage and is built into an item that also provides spell vamp and AP as well as an active that deals even more damage as slows; BLOODTHIRSTER, nuff' said). If these boots were implemented they'd have so little lifesteal to offer it'd have to be a pitifully small amount (only slightly more than a doran's blade). Berserker's grieves still a better option for your ADC.

Spell Vamp Boots: I just have one example: Mordekaiser. Between spell vamp from runes, masteries, and a will of the ancients, when he has the enemy's ADC under his wing, he can tank the combined damage of the entire enemy team, with only 29% spell vamp. There's a reason why items with spell vamp list the spell vamp as being a unique passive so it can't be stacked (owning a gunblade and a WotA do work together to provide 40% spell vamp, but that's besides the point). Reason that lifesteal can stack and spell vamp can't is that an ADC deals continuous damage while an APC deals burst, an ADC has to live longer and attack longer to gain HP while, with enough spell vamp, an APC can be instantly healed back to full HP with only one spell. Even how much I'd love more spell vamp on Mord, this item would be broken on live.

Gp10 Boots: Your support now has an item that can supply a few ward on a timer. Late game the team with a support with Gp10 Boots will win because they have more area control via sight. That, and it'd make finishing your build even faster (by a full 10% faster). Sorta broken, sorry.

Jungle Boots: I like the sound of these really, but Nidalee players would abuse the hell out of it as once they hit any brush, they're gone, no catching up to them, and if someone chases, nid'll just litter traps and javelin them in the face.

I know a diversity of boots would allow a larger diversity of builds, but most of these would ruin the game in some way. I'm not saying they WON'T make it into the game, it's just from my standpoint they don't look like they will.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Cpt Rastapopulos

Senior Member

11-11-2012

I love the jungler boots nice for assassins :3


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

JemiloII

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

11-11-2012

Awesome idea, I love new boots ideas. Although the spell vamp boots might be hard for riot to add in the game. Its broken on AP casters like Akali, Vlad, Kat, Mord, and Kennen~ the AP caster on energy/no mana.

Lifesteal boots, ok that pretty freakin awesome.

Armor Pen? Down with the tanky meta! Horrarh!

Jungle Boots? Ima start jungle nidalee if those come out and rengar/shaco will be scary! haha.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Vuther

Senior Member

11-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
Well, the main reasoning I can come up with for that mana passive is the fact that champions' mana pools are limited between 600-1450 without items. At maximum, if someone caught you off guard at the start of the fight as Janna, you might get a little more than 700 shield. And who the hell is going to build that on Janna in the first place?

I find it pretty character-defining, but at the same time, the requirements for it to be effective are also very limited, making it still a niche tool. The two champions I can see wanting it consistently are Singed and Ryze.
I was saying that they will not consider a movement speed passive in the brush like Nidalee because copying it basically hard-counters up a significant portion of Nidalee's character-defining gameplay. Having Blitz's shield on an item is cool for you, but it doesn't really invalidate Blitz's own passive. Having Nidalee's passive on an item invalidates a lot of Nidalee's laning phase power with one item for a phase of the game that she is largely made by.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

JustMyBassCannon

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

11-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vuther View Post
I was saying that they will not consider a movement speed passive in the brush like Nidalee because copying it basically hard-counters up a significant portion of Nidalee's character-defining gameplay. Having Blitz's shield on an item is cool for you, but it doesn't really invalidate Blitz's own passive. Having Nidalee's passive on an item invalidates a lot of Nidalee's laning phase power with one item for a phase of the game that she is largely made by.
So not so much character-defining as character-destroying.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Vuther

Senior Member

11-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
So not so much character-defining as character-destroying.
Yeah, something this champion's gameplay really, really, really relies on would not be copied.

And that is also one reason why we have no stealth-passive items!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

IS1dd0cba794c57948b76b3

Member

11-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uberpuma

Lifesteal Boots: Give Ad carries more variety, help them break the cookie cutter mold. You don't see people build black cleaver much anymore, give them a reason to! Instead of going with a bloodthirster and berserker's greaves let them build a black cleaver with lifesteal boots. They can sacrifice varying levels of attack speed, lifesteal, and attack damage, but they can also get the effect from black cleaver if that is what they need in that situation.
No. The problem with life steal is that it was broken and needed reworks. Giving more life steal doesn't solve the problem.

Quote:
Spell Vamp Boots: If you need more raw damage from your spells you can go with sorcerer's boots, if you notice the enemy team isn't building much magic resistance or you want to build a void staff to take care of your needs you can go with spell vamp boots for a small self-sustain boost to your spells.
They nerfed spell vamp ages ago because certain champs completely dominated with easy access to spell vamp. This is going to be another no.

Quote:
Armor Penetration Boots: We have magic penetration boots, why not show ad carries some love. It would provide another boot option or ad casters like renekton or riven instead of having to build tabis/mercs/lucidities.
The reason there is a spell pen boot is because ADC have an attack speed boot. It's to up magic DPS like physical DPS. The Cooldown Reduction boots were mainly used for supports.

Quote:
Gold/10second Boots: Gives support players more options. You'd hold onto them the entire game and maybe profit like 600 gold or w/e, I don't know the exact end game profits/rates for gp/10s. You may be in favor of having a little bit of a gold boost like that, but you would sacrifice being able to have boots that boost your attack speed, cooldown reduction, etc. A pretty fair trade off in my opinion.
I highly doubt this will ever be made.

Quote:
Jungle/Bush Boots: Gives 2 movement bonus, and an additional 2 movement bonus when in brush, when leaving brush it can last for 1-2 seconds more or something.
This is essentially Nidalee's passive. It will drag the game out even longer and they have already said they don't like having their games drag out for hours on end. They want to punish bad plays and reward good positioning. Giving someone extra escape capabilities is rewarding bad plays.


123