Spell Vamp stat rework is needed:

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Sonic Nova

Senior Member

11-12-2012

I'm sorry to say this, but spell vamp is fine where it stands, have you ever seen a mordekaiser with a will of the ancients? Once he had your team's ADC he can tank the combined force of your team while sipping tea made of your blood, sweat, and tears.


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Peligrad

Senior Member

11-12-2012

lol?

First off, any time a mord is in the game your ADC should be running a QSS for exactly this reason...

Secondly, your example doesn't even make sense... spell vamp isn't even the main thing keeping Mord alive... it's a combination of his shield, his increased resistances from his kit, spell vamp, and lack of focus/burst + ignite on him.

Third, you are helping my point, not hurting it...

Spell vamp is really strong on certain champions, such as manaless AP casters like Mord and Kennen...and really weak on most the other champions.

It needs adjusting... thank you for supporting my argument...


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Naokazu

Senior Member

11-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vkrl View Post
i dont feel every stat should be viable on every champ. Hec/skarn really shouldn't build spell vamp. 'tis more of a sustain stat for mid-lane, as well as a core ingredient to a few champs (vlad/morg for instance). Also, it's pretty counterable with ignite for late game team fights.
I agree, Skarner should build AP to sustain off of his E. However, his E is currently worthless.


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Peligrad

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Any skarner building more AP than a trinity force is doing it wrong...


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JemiloII

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Senior Member

11-13-2012

personally, spell vamp needs to be nerfed for damage over time spells. champions restore too much health.


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foxfire100

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peligrad View Post
While I like the idea of a sustain items for casters, especially AD casters who seem to fall off so early and need the durability, the spell vamp mechanic itself isn't very well balanced.

The formula for how effective spell vamp is just too simple if you ask me...

33% for all aoe...well some aoes have a radius of auto attack range while some have the radius of Zyra's ultimate and the typical number of targets is anywhere from 1-10.

So you've got these champions like Renekton, Hecarim, and Skarner who have these tiny spam q's that have basically a single target radius and they're wishing that their spam was just single target because spell vamp would be 3 times more powerful if it was...

On the other hand you've got Lee Sin...both his big nukes are single target and physical damage and he's trolling everyone with his pillager.

Why not a more dynamic approach?

I realize that Riot probably wants things simple for user friendliness, but at the same time, WE ALL WANT THINGS COMPETITIVE and that should take precedence. And if spell vamp is basically equally effective on all skills, that is user friendliness isn't it?

So here is my idea: for single target spells, vamp is still 100% the effect the item has on it. But for all AoEs, the % effectiveness is based on the skills radius.

Use a formula similar to:

%Effectiveness = -.1833* AoE Radius + 130

Using that formula then the small, basically single target spells like Amumu's Despair would have the spell vamp effectiveness of -.1833*300+130=75.01% effectiveness

So say he has a pillager, for some reason, his q spell vamps about 7.5% of the damage.

But the effectiveness is diminished with large AoEs like Amumu's ultimate:

%Effectiveness = -.1833*600+130= 20.02%

Amumu will only vamp 2% of the damage dealt with his ultimate if he has a pillager...

Champions with huge AoEs still can't abuse the effect, netting huge amounts of life for hitting minion waves...

Obviously this would likely need a bit of adjusting. In general big AoEs would see a spell vamp nerf and mid size AoEs see a minor buff while small AoEs see a major buff.

But it think this is a great general strategy to balance the spell vamp for all champions.

I could definitely see additional adjustment needed for persistent effects and multi-target abilities. But this is a good base platform to launch from IMO.
I like the idea, but I don't think the formula is perfect. Amumu's W, while short-range, can easily be set up to hit all 6 minions in a wave. If you're getting 75% spellvamp on each minion hit then you'll receive a total of 450% of his DPS in the form of healing.

Perhaps is AoE spells simply counted spellvamp on only one enemy hit? That way if you hit 1 person or 10 you only get the heal once. The issue then is which enemy to use for the effect since if a tank is caught in the AoE they will have significantly more MR. Simple solutions would be minimum MR, maximum MR, or average MR. A better suggestion would be to use the closest enemy.


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Ranic

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Junior Member

11-13-2012

or you just...

AoE heals 100% of the damage dealt on avarage. EG you hit 3 minions for 200 with 10% spell vamp you heal 20, you hit 2 champions for 180 and 6 minions for 200 with 10% you heal 19.5.

For DoT AoEs you heal based on time and damage avarage. EG if the move is 5 seconds long you get 20% each second if its 2 you get 50% each second.

This would fix mord being unstopable and buff casters that need it.


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67chrome

Senior Member

11-13-2012

I'd just like it if every ability had an "On-Hit effectiveness" field, were it straight up shows you what percentage of spell vamp, rylies slow, and blackfire torch damage you get with the given spell, rather than just having a tier list for single-target and AoE/DoT spells (and having to look it up on LoL wiki or whatnot to see what exactly it's classified as - fox fire is considered a single-target spell for instance yet it can strike 3 units, Death Lotus is considered AoE yet it can strike 3 units). That way you could, say, put the on-hit effectiveness of abilities that can easily abuse additional effects (Such as Poison Trail) to a lower value, and AoE skills that really can't (like Eclipse) to a higher one.

50% reduced effectiveness on minions sounds reasonable for most of the abuse cases, Mordekaiser's Shield was hit to only benefit 50% from minions to finally allow you to deal with him.


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Peligrad

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by foxfire100 View Post
I like the idea, but I don't think the formula is perfect. Amumu's W, while short-range, can easily be set up to hit all 6 minions in a wave. If you're getting 75% spellvamp on each minion hit then you'll receive a total of 450% of his DPS in the form of healing.
I don't disagree. Maybe there needs to be a maximum eligible target limit...

Say, it vamps off up to 4 targets. Then you could buff the % vamp of the larger AoEs some.

That would be another way to balance the stat.

I'm not going to pretend that I know the best way to do this. I'm just saying that it could be done better than it currently is.

Thanks for the feedback.


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