Spell Vamp stat rework is needed:

12
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Peligrad

Senior Member

11-07-2012

While I like the idea of a sustain items for casters, especially AD casters who seem to fall off so early and need the durability, the spell vamp mechanic itself isn't very well balanced.

The formula for how effective spell vamp is just too simple if you ask me...

33% for all aoe...well some aoes have a radius of auto attack range while some have the radius of Zyra's ultimate and the typical number of targets is anywhere from 1-10.

So you've got these champions like Renekton, Hecarim, and Skarner who have these tiny spam q's that have basically a single target radius and they're wishing that their spam was just single target because spell vamp would be 3 times more powerful if it was...

On the other hand you've got Lee Sin...both his big nukes are single target and physical damage and he's trolling everyone with his pillager.

Why not a more dynamic approach?

I realize that Riot probably wants things simple for user friendliness, but at the same time, WE ALL WANT THINGS COMPETITIVE and that should take precedence. And if spell vamp is basically equally effective on all skills, that is user friendliness isn't it?

So here is my idea: for single target spells, vamp is still 100% the effect the item has on it. But for all AoEs, the % effectiveness is based on the skills radius.

Use a formula similar to:

%Effectiveness = -.1833* AoE Radius + 130

Using that formula then the small, basically single target spells like Amumu's Despair would have the spell vamp effectiveness of -.1833*300+130=75.01% effectiveness

So say he has a pillager, for some reason, his q spell vamps about 7.5% of the damage.

But the effectiveness is diminished with large AoEs like Amumu's ultimate:

%Effectiveness = -.1833*600+130= 20.02%

Amumu will only vamp 2% of the damage dealt with his ultimate if he has a pillager...

Champions with huge AoEs still can't abuse the effect, netting huge amounts of life for hitting minion waves...

Obviously this would likely need a bit of adjusting. In general big AoEs would see a spell vamp nerf and mid size AoEs see a minor buff while small AoEs see a major buff.

But it think this is a great general strategy to balance the spell vamp for all champions.

I could definitely see additional adjustment needed for persistent effects and multi-target abilities. But this is a good base platform to launch from IMO.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Peligrad

Senior Member

11-07-2012

Guess I'm the only one who thinks that the spell vamp formula is silly...


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

RockJockey

Senior Member

11-07-2012

I don't agree with your assessment of spellvamp.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

cacaw

Junior Member

11-07-2012

i dont feel every stat should be viable on every champ. Hec/skarn really shouldn't build spell vamp. 'tis more of a sustain stat for mid-lane, as well as a core ingredient to a few champs (vlad/morg for instance). Also, it's pretty counterable with ignite for late game team fights.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Fallenour

Senior Member

11-07-2012

play morgana or katarina and youll see spell vamp is just fine where it is now.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

JustMyBassCannon

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

11-07-2012

As much as I would like to agree with this, at the same time, Vkrl has an equally good point; not every stat is supposed to be viable on every champion. Maybe Spell Vamp isn't the best way to balance Renekton, just like AP might not be the best way to balance Miss Fortune (probably why Riot made her more AD focused than, say, Varus).


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sambrosia

Senior Member

11-07-2012

I like this idea a lot, but it does need tweaking. Perhaps have the spell vamp on AOE have a maximum of 60-70%, and from there it scales downward, so Amumu's despair would be doing 50% instead of 75%. While his ultimate would be doing 30%. (percentages approximated)


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

NA Rukhron

Senior Member

11-08-2012

I really like this idea, through it needs to be re-calculated.

I have a different view through.
For me, lifesteal and spellvamp are stats to reward and thus incentive direct combat.
For that reason I feel like they have to be worked having the same treatment that was given to Irelia's ultimate (and worked)

Lifesteal and Spellvamp would be half effective on minion.
Due to the lesser reward on minions spellvamp would see a slight buff to 50% effectiveness on AoE.

Results:
Lifesteal, on champions: 100% effectiveness
Lifesteal, on minions: 50% effectiveness
Spellvamp, on champion (single target): 100% effectiveness
Spellvamp, on champion (multi target): 50% effectiveness
Spellvamp, on minions (single target): 50% effectiveness
Spellvamp, on minions (multi target): 25% effectiveness

That's a direct and simple approach.

Small AoE spells would be heavily impacted by it as they're not likely to strike many minions.
Big AoE spells wouldn't feel much impact by it as they'd have reduced return from the excess of target, but they'd still be valuable in teamfights.
Riskless sustains would be reduced (we all know how it's hard to take katarina/kennen out of the lane due to the infinity riskless sustain they get, Caitlyn may be easier due to the fact she's being harassed by 2 in her lane, but she still has a huge ammount of riskless healing out of lifesteal)

The competitive situation between lifesteal/spellvamp and regeneration would be leveled to a more equal ground.
In a straight fight, lifesteal and spellvamp would still win.
In several small fights they'd stand in more equal grounds. That would lead to the low-damage champions having a more offensive game, since their small damage is hardly reversed, thus more impactful.

I believe this approach would allow for more spellvamp itens to be introduced (i mean 1 or 2 more, spellvamp options should stay at less than half than lifesteal imho), more rewarding game for defensive-style champions as they're more effective in small skirmishies (unlike how they just die slowly right now) just because now their smaller damage sink in for a while, rather than just dissapear at the next minion wave. (the mana and cooldowns you spend should matter more than having 6 minions to auto attack)


That would also make the sustain or shield a suport brings to the lane much more significant.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Peligrad

Senior Member

11-08-2012

The goal isn't to get spell vamp equally viable on all champions as some are thinking.

Obviously, some champions are more auto attack focused while others are spell damage focused and the ones that are auto attack focused are never going to scale well with spell vamp (for obvious reasons),

The goal is to make spell vamp closer to equally viable for all casters (i.e. not overpowered for some casters and utterly useless form most others).

Now obviously, some spells are intended for damage and others are intended for utility. But I think the ones intended for damage only, and are small aoes are really underpowered atm and that's what this is intended to fix.

That said, the best top lane picks are the ones that either scale really well with life steal, or have healing or other form of sustain built straight into their kit.

Just look at the current top laners in the competitive tier list.
http://www.reignofgaming.net/tier-lists/competitive-tier-list

In tier 1 you've got: Shen, Jayce, Olaf, Irelia, Malphite, Vlad, Rengar, and Rumble for top laners.

With the exception of Jayce, every single one of those champions has some form of sustain built into their kit.

Additionally, Jayce, Olaf, Irelia, Vlad, Rengar, and Rumble are all well known for their synergy with either life steal (doran's blade) or spell vamp (WotA/Revolver) that works well with their means of farming.

But there are so many other casters that are left in a weak state because they don't have sustain in their kit and can't build it either (because the items don't exist or because their kit is small AoEs).

I really think that the game would be a lot more balanced and more champions would be viable if they addressed these few things.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Peligrad

Senior Member

11-12-2012

bump


12