[Solo Q Secrets #001] Surrendering Wins Games

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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
Next, you completely ignored my next point. The statistics you cited in your original post are horrendously inaccurate.


63% win rate is 37% lose rate.
54% win rate is 46% lose rate.
61% win rate is 39% lose rate.

Assuming you cited accurate win rates for those 3 players, none of them are anywhere near losing 55-65% of their games. They lose 37-46% of their games. That's a MASSIVE difference.
And finally, there's still this. It's not my opinion that a 63% win rate is a 37% lose rate. That's simple fact, by definition of what the terms "win rate" and "lose rate" mean.

You accuse players that have well over 50% win rates of losing 55-65% of their games. You're completely ignoring this. You've not changed the original post, you've not admitted your wrong.

Regardless of what you think about my point regarding surrendering, the point made in this post is not a matter of opinion. It is a matter of fact. Your original post is factually wrong in this regard. That you are not willing to admit you're wrong in this regard makes the entire thread look silly.

If you can't admit when you're wrong or when your idea might need some improvement, then who the hell are you to be giving advice to anyone, especially when you admit that you don't have the Elo to back up anything you're saying. Heck, you just see that pro teams have surrendered before and imagined all this up and you're trying to assign this reasoning to the reason why pros surrender. Tell, what pros do you know? What pros have explained all this as the logic behind their surrender?

And what pro has told you "Yes, despite my 63% win rate, I lose 55-65% of my games."

Do you know what win rate means?

Seriously, do you? If you address nothing else I've posted, please explain to me what you think "win rate" means.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

11-12-2012

Bumping this thread since the OP feels the need to open more and more of these types of threads and keep the others bumped on the top page, but ignores the issues point out in this thread.


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ryzeonline

Senior Member

11-12-2012

Pogo, it's cool, I love ya man.

To me, I've proposed some suggestions some people can try, and you clearly aren't interested in them.

That's fine, but there's nothing to address.

It's like me saying: "Hey, I think shooting a basketball THIS way, works better for me, and you may wanna try it."

I'm suggesting that a "graceful surrender" has it's place, and brings benefits.

You seem to passionately disagree. Great, the world needs different viewpoints

So it's all good -- try it, or don't, or spend your whole day explaining why it won't work -- I don't care

And as always, thanks for the bump, man


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

11-12-2012

It's not just that there's a difference of opinion. Part of your original post is factually inaccurate. It's not just "Hey, I think shooting a basketball THIS way, works better for me, and you may wanna try it."


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ryzeonline

Senior Member

11-12-2012

Okay, I allow/concede whatever corrections Pogo has made to my "factual inaccuracies".

My experiment still stands.




( Does your ego and overwhelming *need to be right* and recognized feel better now? )


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rajo101

Senior Member

11-12-2012

A lot of it comes down to how ba are you losing andhowmuch is it bothering everyone. I have seen ragers insist on finishing a game, even though they are clearly distressed and honestly believe that the team will lose. The only reason they don't surrender is they don't "believe in" surrendering. This is simply not right. There is no reason in finishing a game that is bothering people. On the other hand, if everyone is just "hey, let's just see what we can do. We will probably lose, but let's see how far we can get first," not surrendeing isn't a problem. However, these kinds of happy-go-luckies generally don't mind surrendering either if others want a fresh slate. Whatever you do, don't be stupidly stuck in it. Don't surrender everytime someting goes wrong (which I don't believe is what the OP suggested), and don't not surrender only because you "don't beieve in it."


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ryzeonline

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by rajo101 View Post
A lot of it comes down to how ba are you losing andhowmuch is it bothering everyone. I have seen ragers insist on finishing a game, even though they are clearly distressed and honestly believe that the team will lose. The only reason they don't surrender is they don't "believe in" surrendering. This is simply not right.
Bam!

Fantastically said, Rajo!

I've seen that so many times as well. They clearly have zero confidence that the team will pull through, they're setting records for raging, coming across angrier than any human... ever... and they won't let the game go, and calm down - lol.

Quote:
There is no reason in finishing a game that is bothering people.
I lean towards this too, but it gets a bit of a judgment call, because someone is always "bothered"

Quote:
On the other hand, if everyone is just "hey, let's just see what we can do. We will probably lose, but let's see how far we can get first," not surrendeing isn't a problem.
Brilliant, I totally agree, and it's my favorite way to lose

Quote:
However, these kinds of happy-go-luckies generally don't mind surrendering either if others want a fresh slate.
^^ That is me

Quote:
Whatever you do, don't be stupidly stuck in it. Don't surrender everytime someting goes wrong (which I don't believe is what the OP suggested), and don't not surrender only because you "don't beieve in it."
You just neatly said what I wanted to say, in a sentence. Ballin'. Thanks, Rajo!

P.S. I'd be honored to play with you


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Hotdogs

Senior Member

11-13-2012

high elo players should win 50% of their current games
their overall win rate is higher than than 50% because they had a higher win rate when they had a lower elo in the past.


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Hotdogs

Senior Member

11-13-2012

i only surrender if i think the opponent is deliberately dragging the game out or if people dc


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ryzeonline

Senior Member

11-13-2012

That's cool, Hotdogs

I've heard a similar thing about win-rate, so I'm glad you're sharing it here.

Thank you

And it's really *not* the main point of the post, lol

As for when you surrender -- that's fine, it sounds like you have your own guidelines/system for it.

Do what works for ya