How to Counter Kassadin?

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PunchGroin

Senior Member

02-09-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitpoints View Post
All this considered then... wouldn't Kassadin be considered OP then? I messed around the past two games I played trying to figure out a way to beat him... ended up doing worse than when I play normal (IE was buying MR based items more) There is not a single char that I has left me shaking my head until now.
I think burst casters encourage a more conservative early game, and require a lot of patience to play properly. In other words, hes harder than a lot of other champs. (And EASY to fail with if you dont have practice.) Hes a character you are going to absolutely SUCK with your first handful of games, hence he doesn't get picked up by many. Yes, he wrecks face, yes, he IS considered OP Top Tier 1st ban/pick in Europe, and has been for about a year.

I think the problem is that Kass excells against undisciplined teams or overly aggressive teams. The only way to really counter him is for a team to stick like glue and reliably be able to CC him when he blinks in. (No WAY is ashe launching that arrow at me! Im waiting for her to use it, then im pooping on her.) If you watched CLG go against the Europeons, you see how their team setup basically totally shuts down their kassadin. (But left TF wide open to rule the battlefield) So classic, CC heavy team works pretty **** well.


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Alastior

Senior Member

02-09-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tizok View Post
Yes, he should only silence and have 1 reliable nuke.

Don't stray too far from your team. A Ryze farming mid at 50% health? NOMNOMNOMNOM
Kass can only control one of you, I find it's often much harder to initiate when I know 1 of them can still blow me the **** up from here to China.

Also, AFAIK, most build don't allow Kass alot of sponge, even if you can't kill him, odds are the damage that WAS thrown will force him to consider jumping back in, or maybe he'll have to base if he's not confident.
Take advantage of this and force a fight while he's gone.
....

This thread is about countering him during the laning phase. Not during the team fight phase of the game. Everyone knows he can be dealt with during team fights. It's during laning that he is ****ed up OP vs so many champs. As soon as he hits level 6 he just stands in the back, teleports onto your face, casts a silence, AE bursts, then calmly walks away while taking an auto attack or two. Result? He last about 1/6th of his health from creeps and your auto attacks and you are now at 2/3 health. Twice more and you are dead.


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ICE Gang Golex

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02-09-2011

Laning phase? That's when Kassadin is the weakest. He shares the same problem that Malphite did vs Gargas.

Kassadin sucks way too much pre-level six. All he has is Q since Force Pulse won't be up that much and his Voidblade never gets leveled. Q is a nice nifty nuke with a silence to boot but that's the only thing he can farm with. You have to remember that his autoattack is melee and he's squishy as hell. You can either harrass the hell out of him when he farms or force him to sit back and farm with Q. Either way if you force him to use Q whenever it's up he'll run out of mana very, very quickly.

Sivir counters him pretty well since she can clear a wave quickly, pre-six, and still stay safe with her Q's distance. Couple that with her E and some good prediction on his Q and you're set until he's 6. From there, well let's just hope you got that 40 CS and he's stuck at his 10 like he should be.


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GayLord McD

Senior Member

02-09-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastior View Post
....

This thread is about countering him during the laning phase. Not during the team fight phase of the game. Everyone knows he can be dealt with during team fights. It's during laning that he is ****ed up OP vs so many champs. As soon as he hits level 6 he just stands in the back, teleports onto your face, casts a silence, AE bursts, then calmly walks away while taking an auto attack or two. Result? He last about 1/6th of his health from creeps and your auto attacks and you are now at 2/3 health. Twice more and you are dead.
Solo mid?
Any caster that his silence outranges is gonna get zoned, for the most part.
Any carry will, most likely, not have the burst through AD to counter harass.
You'll need ganks on him during lane, he's extremely gankable pre-6 unless he's NSing last hits, which at that point you're safe from harass. Think of him like a Vlad, if you can't shut him down pre-ult you're gonna need help. Good thing is he can't sustain himself indefinitely to harass.
Don't overextend, if he's dumb enough to push the wave, (which at my ELO most players are) he's food for your jungler. If you're a solo squish (the kind Kass eats for breakfast) DEMAND a switch, gank, anything that keeps you from staying in a unfavorable match-up.

Fact is most mids are very squish, either being a caster or a carry. That's what Kass is built for.
Well that and running away like a *****.


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PENHALIGAN

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Senior Member

02-09-2011

hard crowd control is a kassadins worst nightmare. one stun and hes screwed pretty much


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V A L E N T E

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Senior Member

02-09-2011

dont fed him too much, that is a counter measure


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GayLord McD

Senior Member

02-09-2011

My troll kass build has me going 9/21/0 with Cleanse and Flash SS btw.
Do I have the burst as other builds, no, but **** if I should ever die ever.

I guess Tankadin could accomplish this better.
I once won a duel to the death with a Shen as Tank Kass, I kid you not.

It was one of those "You know you're low ELO when..." moments.


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Danieboy

Senior Member

02-09-2011

Play cho'gath and hope you don't have a ******ed team


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Alastior

Senior Member

02-09-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golex View Post
Laning phase? That's when Kassadin is the weakest. He shares the same problem that Malphite did vs Gargas.

Kassadin sucks way too much pre-level six. All he has is Q since Force Pulse won't be up that much and his Voidblade never gets leveled. Q is a nice nifty nuke with a silence to boot but that's the only thing he can farm with. You have to remember that his autoattack is melee and he's squishy as hell. You can either harrass the hell out of him when he farms or force him to sit back and farm with Q. Either way if you force him to use Q whenever it's up he'll run out of mana very, very quickly.

Sivir counters him pretty well since she can clear a wave quickly, pre-six, and still stay safe with her Q's distance. Couple that with her E and some good prediction on his Q and you're set until he's 6. From there, well let's just hope you got that 40 CS and he's stuck at his 10 like he should be.
Yes, pre-6 he is bad. Real bad. But if he survives to 6 he just won the lane. Certain champs can counter him, but others just lost the game so badly due to pure game mechanic issues that they may as well just let him take the tower and go jungle.

That's a problem IMO when one champion can dominate another so easily that early in the game without any counter or skill being involved.


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ICE Gang Golex

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02-09-2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastior View Post
Yes, pre-6 he is bad. Real bad. But if he survives to 6 he just won the lane. Certain champs can counter him, but others just lost the game so badly due to pure game mechanic issues that they may as well just let him take the tower and go jungle.

That's a problem IMO when one champion can dominate another so easily that early in the game without any counter or skill being involved.
Well most team compositions should have one person who can go against Kassadin, if so then put them against him. If you have someone who can't lane against Kass, and put them against him in lane then you deserve to lose. Setting up lanes what determines how your early game goes. Normal games are the exception but still, you should have someone who can still do fairly well.

Even after six, Kassadin is still pretty weak unless he has golem. The real turning point for Kassadin is either when he gets his first kill, thanks to bursting someone who was dumb enough to stay after he hit six or he got Catalyst. Catalyst is the sitting stone for him to stay in lane (or Tear, I guess). Catalyst cost a good 1.3k (IIRC) and you get a good 475 to start. That leaves you with 800g to go and that's still a good twenty to thirty creeps.

The longer you can deny him from farming or getting any real good mana regen you're set. Rather than focusing on farming more than Kass you should be focusing on how to gimp him for later, since the early he gets going the more he'll rape.


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