thornmail, and why is really sucks

First Riot Post
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doctorricardo

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Is it only being removed in 3s, or from the entire game? I'd like to make sure I have the facts straight before I go off the deep end.


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WillWW

Senior Member

11-06-2012

It needs to be removed. Played a rank game where they had a 12/1 fiora. Kept triple teaming us and acing. I was teemo, bought thornmail, shut her down. She couldn't touch us after that. They won, barely, but not directly bc of her in team fights anymore.


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Orbital Nuke

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Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
Frozen Heart and Randuin's don't hurt your opponent. And both of those aren't shining examples of good item design either.
What are the shining examples of item design from older items (Stuff that S2 began with)?


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PersainCAT

Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
Frozen Heart and Randuin's don't hurt your opponent. And both of those aren't shining examples of good item design either.
lol 3 best items for reducing ADC damage are all bad examples of items design huh.
AR pen gets stronger and all the slot efficient AR is badly designed. i want a 300 AR item next season then dont care about the cost i just need a higher AR item for my manaless tanks. not like we can stack sunfire's for slot efficiency anymore


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ShawNuff

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Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by EJulian View Post
veigar's ult? why isn't it reworked than?
Devil's advocate would say that Veigar's ult would tend to shift a mage from a ratio reliant build to a spellpen reliant build rather than just countering all AP champions. Veigar in general needs some love... he does decently sometimes, but I'll never forget the pro game I saw where 50+ minute hyper farmed veigar got no kills in a teamfight because he was forced to burn his combo on a full GA team... some late game huh?

Also, for people saying to build Maw to counter it. Maw does horrendous damage, and has very mediocre magic resist, costs a ton, and will not actually bring you to a break even point for your lifesteal.


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exelsis xax

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh Snow View Post
Thornmail is directly countered by having above average lifesteal. Meaning, if someone on your team has a zeke's and you have a BT that is stacked, you get more life back than you take in thornmail damage. Meanwhile, Frozen Heart and Randuins kill your attack speed completely, and make it incredibly hard for your peelers to help you at all on the subject of getting away. Thornmail is a garbage item and it misled people into bad item purchases at low elo. Thank you for removing it.
You obviously don't know how thornmail actually works. You need 60% lifesteal to counter thornmail, without including your MR/ARpen or their armor. If they total 300 armor, you would need 120% lifesteal if you had no ARpen or MR. There is no situation where thornmail is not the best armor item for shutting down an AD carry.

You and your ilk simply don't understand how it works. Thornmail is THE BEST counter physical damage item that has ever existed in LoL. They are removing it from TT because they realize that it is TOO GOOD.


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BayconLife

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Junior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
It's being removed for a few reasons.
1. It scales with your opponent's strength, not your own.
2. The gold necessary to counter it (on 3's anyway) far outweighs the investment to buy it.
3. It doesn't introduce any gameplay.
Any chance of a new item with similar style? Maybe one with an active that for X seconds you reflect a percent of damage soaked (by AR, MR, or damage reduction skills). It could have a distinct animation for when it is active so you know to switch to a different target, it would still have the problem that some of the scaling depends on your opponent's strength though...just throwing ideas out there.


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DragonEpico

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
It's being removed for a few reasons.
1. It scales with your opponent's strength, not your own.
2. The gold necessary to counter it (on 3's anyway) far outweighs the investment to buy it.
3. It doesn't introduce any gameplay.
1. One of the few factors that counters the huge snowballing problem in TT
2. Same as above
3. Makes AP and magic damage have a viable role as it makes 3 bruiser teams unviable


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Mogs01gt

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Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by exelsis xax View Post
You obviously don't know how thornmail actually works. You need 60% lifesteal to counter thornmail, without including your MR/ARpen or their armor. If they total 300 armor, you would need 120% lifesteal if you had no ARpen or MR. There is no situation where thornmail is not the best armor item for shutting down an AD carry. You and your ilk simply don't understand how it works. Thornmail is THE BEST counter physical damage item that has ever existed in LoL. They are removing it from TT because they realize that it is TOO GOOD.
Correct and I think people are also ignoring the cost issue AGAIN which was already stated.


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MrHaveANiceDay

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by EJulian View Post
veigar's ult? why isn't it reworked than?
It still scales primarily off of your own power. At the same time, you're comparing a passive, automatic, no-use-required, permanently on damage reflection to a scaling ultimate with a cooldown.

While similar, they aren't parallel by any means.