Normal games are kind of dangerous now if you're an unskilled/new player..

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tribunalconsp

Member

11-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnfnrf View Post
No, that's not what I'm saying at all.

Remember, this is all predicated on the assumption that the cases represent "true" punish verdicts. The only reason we have to believe this is that Lyte says that he believes it. If you believe that Lyte is lying, or a poor judge of Tribunal guilt, then none of this has any relevance.
Indeed.

Quote:
Overall, there are three possible scenarios that result in this situation:

A.) People are really innocent:
A1.) The Tribunal is wrong, the reason doesn't matter.

B.) People are really guilty:
B1.) The Tribunal is right, but for the wrong reasons.
B2.) The Tribunal is right, for the right reasons.

The crux of my argument is that B does not imply B1, it implies either B1 or B2.

You may disagree. But I hope my theory at least makes sense.

I know your argument: You think that somehow it was possible that every PhD who uses the tribunal happened to review that case and used their superior intellect to make the right verdict (of course based on Lyte being an infallible deity).

It's ridiculous....There is nothing in those cases that hints to absolute guilt. If there is, please point it out. Please point out what irrefutably makes each and every one of those an absolute punish, or implies a high degree of guilt from that DATA (or as the common man calls it, evidence).

I'm all eyes.


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tribunalconsp

Member

11-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
hahaha.

Thanks for your bumps. I love them.


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LittleDi

Senior Member

11-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysUsesAnivia View Post
The Tribunal has become Lyte's baby so he has a vested interest in demonstrating that it works. Of course he's going to agree with the outcomes of false positives.
Then I'm going to ask you why would he overturn one if he considered it a punish?


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

11-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by tribunalconsp View Post
Thanks for your bumps. I love them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
I wasn't arguing for or against anything. I was correcting bad math.
You realize that I posted this like 7 pages back, right?

I'm not outright against the original idea of this thread. I'm not taking a stance one way or another.

I'm not even saying whether or not I think a 1 in 40,000 chance is an acceptable rate for people to be wrongly banned.

This all started because someone else, who is against the core principle of this thread, was trying to use math to demonstrate the extraordinarily low rate of false punishes. Their math was wonky and bad. I corrected their math.

I'm not trying to put this thread down. I'm just trying to set the record straight on the math. Because if the statistical odds of being falsely punished are going to be debated, they should be debated based on the correct math. There's no point in either side using lies, falsehoods, or incorrect data to make their point. I was correcting the data in order for the conversation to continue.

Heck, if you look hard enough, I even made a post in this thread calling Lyte out on a comment he made regarding pre/post game chat logs.

I'm not AGAINST the idea of this thread. I'm really pretty much on the fence.

All I was attempting to do from the beginning of the conversation regarding the odds was make sure the numbers were right.

Where were you trying to accomplish by trolling me?


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TimeforSion

Member

11-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
I clearly stated in the original post some examples of data that Tribunal players don't have access to. There are many privacy issues if I post data about a player that isn't requesting the data themselves, which is why I didn't expand on the cases like I usually do. It's not as simple as just hitting the "Agree" button. We can collect the data, it doesn't mean we can post your data for the public to review.

On examples of data, I have access to pre- and post-game chat. I have access to exactly who reported the player and can determine whether the reports are from good or toxic players. I can even check how 'valid' a player's reports typically are, to determine whether the majority of the reports for this person was from players who have good report weights. I even have ways to segment false reports from true reports.
Will you take a look at mine please? I believe you already did so since you hand-review every single case during your lunch breaks but I wish you could take a look at it just one more time. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/tribunal/en/case/5920725/


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gnfnrf

Senior Member

11-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by tribunalconsp View Post
I know your argument: You think that somehow it was possible that every PhD who uses the tribunal happened to review that case and used their superior intellect to make the right verdict (of course based on Lyte being an infallible deity).
That's not what I think, and it's not what I said. I spelled it out as clearly as I could. If this is what you got from it, we can't have a meaningful discussion about it.


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Methelod

Senior Member

11-12-2012

So why are people arguing with these two trolls? They sit there and dodge any logical argument and go back to insulting people. They use comparisons to imply that anyone who disagrees with them has downs or is a "knuckle dragging hick", they have already proven they believe Riot is lying meaning that arguing with them is pointless.


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JinAtonix

Member

11-12-2012

bump justicw


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tribunalconsp

Member

11-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnfnrf View Post
That's not what I think, and it's not what I said. I spelled it out as clearly as I could. If this is what you got from it, we can't have a meaningful discussion about it.

You said that it either implies what we we're arguing, or, exclusively, that the tribunal worked properly due to magic fairy convergence.

You didn't put a theorem forth, because you proved nothing.

That's called a hypothesis and one which is unjustified, because it lacks any kind of empirical data and sound, statistical inference .


You're not using a scientific approach, but a theological one; you argue assumptions as proven theorems. So yes, there is no arguing with you, because you don't want to argue.


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YourBoner

Senior Member

11-12-2012

im sry to say this, but i agree with bans. its not so simply games are bad for new unskilled players, its players are unwilling to learn from others. you have no idea how many times ive corrected a guy on how he plays and heres the list of responses i would get:
"dude stfu"
"dude just play"
"i know what i am doing"
"stop talking and play"
"just do your job"
...etc.

either that or they dont respond at all. what happens in the end? 20 min of my life wasted due to a dumb loss if im lucky. not a regular loss, a dumb loss. i can stand losing a game. i cant stand losing a game cause a guy wont cooperate. i have a number of bad players on my team who i dont report. why? because i get it, you suck, but at least you tried to listen to me and team and did what we ask of you with the best of your intentions. there are too many players who dont do that and 3/5 of team tries to surrender, but the two guys feeding and ignoring team are clicking no. so yes. these players u showed us are bad. but they are getting banned for the right reasons. they need to listen to team if they know they are bad and learn, otherwise even if its fun for you, you are taking the fun away from other ppl of your team. but i do agree with you guys the community is getting worse, because they are supporting these lethargic players and their attitude and sometimes even riot supports that. ex. "did you know? people who yell at teammates lose 13% of their games". indicating you shouldn't yell at your teammates even when you politely asked them to do things for 10min into the game and they ignore you and then they in turn do bad. its more like "did you know? teammates who lose 13% of their games due to bad teammates will yell at their teammates".