[Featured Discussion] Flat health heal on hit item. why not?

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Stickiler

Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExTFeelGood View Post
I would love to see itemization reworks that make "melee carries" viable, such as Fiora or GP. I believe that the current state of being of ranged AD is far too dominant and leaves very little room for variety in team compositions :/

Yeah, there needs to be some items that address the issues with melee carries, without also allowing those items on ranged carries. I think whole, red buff+frozen mallet slowing more for a melee target is a good idea, but more needs to be done. The other problem is if you get a really good item for melee carries, it needs to be unviable for tanky dps and tanks, or you go back to that meta of all tanky dps, all the time.


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3rdStorm

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by GullibleHuskyz View Post
if u want flat health regen play cho gath
There no #s on an item yet nor a price. How much heal and at what cost would it cause teemo to be to strong? is the constructive question.

Buying a heal on hit item for teemo would mean gold being spent elsewhere. I assume your talking about AP AS teemo. So would buying a 20 hp on hit item for 1600 gold be stronger then say a needlessly large rod or malady?

At a certain point it becomes a different play style


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Richard Lazer

Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Quite honestly, I have no idea. There's a lot of moving parts here on changes.

Force of Nature served three purposes, one of which we couldn't make good.

1. High end MR item on one item.

We're not sure that a single rushed item should counter mages so heavily. So buying FoN for raw magic resistance was always going to be somewhat of a trap because we could never make it *good* to have this much MR on a single item without it simply being cost-inefficient so it could be slot-efficient.

There are ways to make an item cost-inefficient for selfish MR while still making it cost-efficient as a whole for MR though...

2. Regeneration/Siege

This we liked, but the fact that it was tied to a movement speed item and a magic resist item was a little weird. It didn't quite seem to click, so tanks that had to itemize regeneration kind of picked up a bunch of stats randomly.

Also, the tri-fecta of Warmogs / Spirit Visage / FoN was actually incredibly hard to get a good sense of balance. Mostly because it turns "on" super-late but mostly because they build on each other a little too much. While we like the build of 'I am unstoppable brick wall of regeneration' - we think that right now it's both really hard to get *and* overpowered when finished and we'd really like to see it be a more viable build that's more in line when it does happen so people feel like they aren't taking long-gambits but more of a choice on how to itemize.

3. Movement Speed

The whole paradigm of X class gets a MS item Y is actually starting to show where the faults are. In order to specialize for movement speed, you have to build into a very specific item - which naturally creates this weird power gap where a class that is perfectly catered by item Y gets MS while every other class pays a gold tax of unwanted stats to get the same mobility. This naturally leads to people wanting more MS/X items for a specific class - which seems to suggest that maybe what people actually want is more ubiquitous movement options that don't consume slots rather than a continuous stream of one-off items with MS% randomly on it.

For example, Lich Bane is the AP item with movement speed on it. That kind of screws every AP caster who doesn't want Lich Bane or can't use it well. This leads to this weird case where randomly, some class of characters get faster just because they can use Lich Bane well. While it's nice to have a few items like this - it's probably a sign as a whole that people want to be able to somehow spend more gold to get mobility rather than they want catered items that have MS on the item.


the only champ i ever built fon on was singed and with the new tt i didn't see it useful because of the new needlessly large rod item and the fact that you could build 3 items from cata all of witch were useful


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Power Rangers

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Senior Member

11-06-2012

it'd intersting to have in the pbe to test out


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Lazreal

Senior Member

11-06-2012

would be awesome to see a flat heal on hit item, for on hit/attack seed builds, also could be a good option for tank builds aswell like Shyvanna, abd many more when comboed.


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Epjest

Senior Member

11-06-2012

I feel this would help On-hit builds (assuming theirs a decently high tier version) since one of their biggest drawbacks compared to AD - crit builds is they have zippo health sustain.

AD - crit builds might scale better, but are more expensive while on-hit tends to be slightly tankier and stronger early game. Might become more competitive with a sustain item.


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Vanra

Senior Member

11-07-2012

idk, I always thought void staff countered FoN pretty well.....


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ItsNotRudy

Member

11-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
For example, Lich Bane is the AP item with movement speed on it. That kind of screws every AP caster who doesn't want Lich Bane or can't use it well. This leads to this weird case where randomly, some class of characters get faster just because they can use Lich Bane well.
The Lich Bane is often used by characters that need to be in melee range to make use of (Akali, AP Sion, Eve) it in the first place, so the MS does make sense. The greatest pitfall of a melee based champ is obviously being kited.


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2 Swainz

Senior Member

11-07-2012

Seems like it would be OP early game and utterly useless late game.


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CtrlAltD1337

Member

11-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
You know we're already experimenting with alternate sustain mechanics like Blade of the Ruined King - which is effectively a form of life steal that doesn't really care about how much damage you have (only have much Penetration you have and the target's health.)

Life on Hit will most likely find its way onto Doran's Blade to get rid of items with small amounts of Life Steal from being rampant. Other small %'s of Life Steal from masteries and runes will probably stay where it is. This has the effect of cancelling a little bit of the Doran's Blade snowball from crits - but also ensure that the Bruiser stacking Doran's Blade to snowball out will also get a bit of reverse snowball as the item doesn't scale into late game.
How would this effect say, AD carries commonly picking up 2 or 3 of them? Would it have reduced amount for each extra?