Support/mid, Lux and Zyra

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Haze of Grey

Member

11-04-2012

Ok, so I had a game the other night, draft pick style I believe, in which the enemy team grabbed lux and Zyra. And my team wondered, "Where will we see these two?" Someone mentioned that Zyra was the obvious choice as support, ever since Zyra's AP scaling got nerfed. I don't really know about the whole idea there, but as I could see it, Zyra is just straight up a far worse support character. Why? Simple. All Zyra can really contribute without risking ksing the carry is throwing our her vines and snaring, as well as the occasional seed devoted to warding one step of one bush for a few seconds. Then, when she hits six, she gets an ult with a massive field of knockup. That's pretty sexy for a support, I will admit. But... Lux has a snare, a shield, a ward spell, and can check to see if the enemy is coming, much like ashe, with her ult. It lights up an entire enemy lane, or half of their jungle, or half of the river, depending on where it's aimed. In combination with CV, this makes lux quite possibly the most powerful warder in the game. Combine that with Ashe's scout, which would be a viable laning partner, and these two would be practically immune to ganks. (This assumes that both players are competent enough to know when they're at risk of a gank, and know where to look for possible gankers, and know when the window they opened for themselves is closed) Now, in single combat, I will say that zyra can give kills to the carry very easily, provided she hits her snare and knocks up the enemy carry, one right after the other. But I think lux's utility makes her a more viable support. And in mid lane, short of shielding herself, one of her skills becomes sort of a waste. It's made with the potential to double shield five people. Shielding just herself seems... minimalistic. (<--not a word, but you get the implication.) And her AP nuke, which melts faces, will definitely net a kill once she has her ult, provided she can just land her q, which isn't a huge stretch. Zyra, however, doesn't hit as hard with her ult, but if she gets a gank, it's far more likely to be put to good use, given her cc being just a bit stronger than lux's, and her plants potentially whipping out far more damage, but at a significantly higher skill cap. I find myself contradicting myself. I want you guys' opinions. Lux V Zyra, support V mid, where do these two go and why?


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Tigercule

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Senior Member

11-04-2012

Honestly, if I had the choice, I'd pick Zyra for mid, though I'm personally not that fond of Lux support.
Out of curiosity though, which actually went mid?


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MaruFrozen

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Senior Member

11-04-2012

Please organize your post better. It is, as of writing this, a solid wall of text.


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Drukyul

Senior Member

11-04-2012

People are so used to dodging blitz grabs bot that Lux snare is tough to land compared to Zyra's that goes through all the minions.


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ClamFace

Senior Member

11-04-2012

Depends on the skill of the players using said champions.


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Anyael

Senior Member

11-04-2012

Both are viable in both roles. As to which should have gone mid, I'd say Lux is better off mid because Zyra is just so powerful as a support due to her harass.


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Amelie

Senior Member

11-04-2012

The way you described those two as supports is just... really awkward to me. Support Lux doesn't use her laser in lane to grant vision. (She may use it to do an emergency check/steal on objectives if she has no wards.) Zyra doesn't only contribute a snare and a seed ward.

Zyra offers a little more CC than Lux, mainly because of the difference of their ults. Lux laser is pure damage, Zyra has the knockup + it buffs her plants. In lane, Zyra will out-dps a support Lux because of her plants. Her snare with a seed combos into a slowing plant, resulting in free (and no risk) damage on the enemy.

If my team lacks teamfight CC, I'd take support Zyra over support Lux. I like to take Lux with someone like Ezreal to chain the long range ults.

They are both good supports and good mids.


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Haze of Grey

Member

11-04-2012

Lux has the same harass as Zyra. Her binding light, which most people treat like a blitz grab, can go through a single minion and still hit it's target. A good lux would watch a gap of two minions in the minion wall, wait for one to die, and then snare through the other minion to hit the carry. That's damage, and a half second of snare. Then, her light binding has quite possibly the best support effects of any spell in the game. It provides both vision of a brush and a chance for damage, depending on when it's used. And for those curious, lux went support, and Zyra mid. And regarding the bit about the solid block of text, that's how I felt like writing, because it isn't a well organized argument, it was a scenario, the thoughts I garnered while thinking about said scenario, and then a question to the community. If you're not willing to read my wall of text, sorry, I guess I won't get your opinion. If this causes you to downvote me into oblivion, meh, I think I can live with that. This isn't something which truly matters, just a curiosity of mine, which has already been partially sated. And whomever downvoted, if it's because you don't like reading a solid block of text, that's sincerely a low blow. You downvote things that aren't worthy content. If you think my lack of organization makes my question any less valid, you're kinda what's wrong with the community.


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Haze of Grey

Member

11-04-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amelie85 View Post
The way you described those two as supports is just... really awkward to me. Support Lux doesn't use her laser in lane to grant vision. (She may use it to do an emergency check/steal on objectives if she has no wards.) Zyra doesn't only contribute a snare and a seed ward.

Zyra offers a little more CC than Lux, mainly because of the difference of their ults. Lux laser is pure damage, Zyra has the knockup + it buffs her plants. In lane, Zyra will out-dps a support Lux because of her plants. Her snare with a seed combos into a slowing plant, resulting in free (and no risk) damage on the enemy.

If my team lacks teamfight CC, I'd take support Zyra over support Lux. I like to take Lux with someone like Ezreal to chain the long range ults.

They are both good supports and good mids.
Lux ult is off CD as much as CV. And it has much farther range than anything, short of ashe, for its sight. Pre ult, and only pre ult, lux's skills support much better. Once ults are up, that support will only be there for perhaps two solid exchanges before the team fight begins. At the period of time in which Zyra's CC is truly a significant factor, the enemy team may or may not put themselves at risk to it. If they hug their turret, it is rather unlikely that Zyra's ult will even matter. Lux, on the other hand, is infamous for her ability to hit you for ~400 damage from far enough away that you can't do a damn thing about it, and that's before her ult is even up. I did not, however, know that Zyra has a plant which inflicts slow. The damage per second, however, I disagree with. Lux is the master of burst damage. E, Q, E, R. That's ninety percent of a carry's hp. In less than five seconds. Zyra can't compete with that. Zyra's damage OVER time is probably superior to lux's, but lux gets the burst medal over anyone but leblanc when it comes to AP bursters. And I'd like to point out that Lux's damage is also no-risk, especially if she's a super troll and starts off with clarity and a mana manipulator and never pushes to the river.


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Johnnie5DubV

Senior Member

11-04-2012

The only thing I see forgotten is the potential zyra has for zoning as a support. It pretty much guarentees bush control and lost exp / last hits for your opponents. Also, her cooldowns are a lot shorter than lux.


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