Team composition and strategy in solo/duo queue

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Gesang der Raben

Senior Member

11-03-2012

Right now, when players queue up, they want to play a specific champ most of the time, not because of any group strategy, but because they like to lane with it. What needs to happen, in games, as well as on the forums and in guides, is a change in focus from laning to mid/late game. Yes, early game and laning are very important, but unless you and everyone else on your team can completely shut down your opponents, mid and late game strategies need to be considered in champ select.
Some strategies are fairly narrow, requiring certain champion combinations.

Diana-Orianna-Lulu (using their shields and ults)
Blitzcrank-Singed/Volibear (max displacement)

Others are more general, and often occur without much effort because there's a broader selection of champs to fill the role.
Split pushing (Shen, Master Yi, Teemo)
AoE Heavy Teams: Singed/Wukong top, Amumu/Dr Mundo/Shyvana jungle,
Anivia/Karthus mid, Leona/Sona/Nunu support, Corki/Kog'maw adc.

Some just involve figuring out the enemy team's strategy, and devising ways to counter it.
Farm for late game: Force a short game (take towers, control dragon spawns, push all lanes hard, deprive enemy team of farm, mobile jungler and support to push harder, and disrupt enemy ganks.

I'm just throwing out ideas, which might not even be any good. I just see that a lot of lost games happen simply because the other team's champs meshed together better, and I see teams losing tournaments because they focused too much on the early game, couldn't shut down the other team, and suffered because they didn't plan as well for the long game.

I know Jax is an extremely strong top lane, and I know he can chunk down towers late game, but does he synergize well with any other champs?
Is Karthus good for anything other than AoE teams?

I suppose what I'm trying to get at is I'd like to see more guides on selecting champs for winning the game, rather than winning the lane. I see people asking on the forums "How do I beat X?", but never asking "Which champ should I pick that works well with Y, Z, and F in team fights?".

I'm hoping by bringing this topic to the forums, I will promote more thought and discussion on the topic. Please feel free to suggest team comps, combos, and general strategies, as well as counters to common strategies, and possibly discuss why planned strategies may be better or worse that the general chaos of single/double queue.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

11-03-2012

I think part of the problem is we're talking about solo/duo queue ranked. You never know who on your team is competent and who is not.

So in ranked solo-queue, it turns out it's actually kind of important to play who you have a strong laning phase with so that you have an opportunity to get fed, shut down your opponent, and perhaps lane to help a teammate get fed and shut his opponent down.

In the end, team comp is nice and all, but a fed team wins a match, no matter how well the champions sync with each other.


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Gesang der Raben

Senior Member

11-03-2012

One should hope that skill levels will be roughly even between both teams. Assuming that no one gets fed, the team with the best synergy is more likely to win.


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Judas Priest

Senior Member

11-03-2012

I don't see myself going ranked in solo lane, it might be like a Russian Roulette. I guess most matches aren't decided by skills nor champion synergy, but by the team who has the noob player. The one with the noob loses, like a bullet in the cylinder.


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Crank Shape

Member

11-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PogoPogoPogoPogo View Post
I think part of the problem is we're talking about solo/duo queue ranked. You never know who on your team is competent and who is not.

So in ranked solo-queue, it turns out it's actually kind of important to play who you have a strong laning phase with so that you have an opportunity to get fed, shut down your opponent, and perhaps lane to help a teammate get fed and shut his opponent down.

In the end, team comp is nice and all, but a fed team wins a match, no matter how well the champions sync with each other.
I think OP has a great point.

But you have a good point too. I just got paired with a group of people who didn't speak English... it's the risk of solo/duo queue.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

11-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gesang der Raben View Post
One should hope that skill levels will be roughly even between both teams. Assuming that no one gets fed, the team with the best synergy is more likely to win.
The average skill level of teammates and opponents over the long run will be roughly even between both teams, yes. But this is over the long run. This is the macroscopic view of Elo and the solo/duo queue.

However, in the microscopic view, there's a massive amount of variance. In any given game, there's a huge variety of skill levels. This is especially true in the middle of the Elo range. The top end and the bottom end are pretty well sorted out. But everyone in the middle range (say 900 to 1500 I'd guess) is a large mix. Some people are on their way up, some people are on their way down, and some people are right where they belong.

If we look a singular ranked solo/duo queue game, the mix of teammates and enemies could be amazing. It's a pretty random grab bag.

If we were guaranteed, on a game to game basis, that we'd get a group of 9 players with pretty even skill level, then the strategy suggested by the OP is a good one. But you're only seeing this at higher Elo's (at a minimum, 1500+ and yes, I know 1500 isn't even that high). The higher you go, the more likely it is that EVERYONE in that range has an accurate Elo and plays consistently well enough to make team composition matter.

For the bulk of players though, people in the more populated Elo ranges, your random teammate/enemy is simply so inconsistent that you're best option is to simply play whatever champion you can have the best laning phase with in order to get yourself fed then dominate the rest of the game.


Now, with that all said...

If you see a few other champions picked, and you've got a champion you know how to play well that happens to synergize well with other champions your team has already picked, then go ahead, pick that. This is a comfortable compromise that will allow you to both dominate early game (so if your teammates are no good, you can still carry) as well as synergize with your teammates later if they happen to be worth anything.

Moreover, I'd also add that if you're going bottom lane, you should definitely be picking a champion that synergizes well with your lane partner. And in these two roles, the list of good champions to pick from is actually pretty small. There are what, 10-12 support champions? And everyone these days is playing Ezreal, Graves, or Corki anyway, right? Bottom lane synergy is definitely a positive option.

But again here, bottom lane synergy is mostly for helping win your lane. You don't know how the other 2 lanes are going to go, but you want to take every measure possible to make sure you get as fed as possible in your lane before laning phase ends.


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OxyProxy

Member

10-02-2013

For duo queing, I happen to see that mid+jungle is a good option.
With mid+jungle, you have more control over the map. You can secure buffs, dragon, objectives, even split push better. With mid+jungle, it should be pretty easy to get first blood, and once you get your mid lane snowballing, both mid and jungle can go ganking top or bot. Because you ganked other lanes, you helped push your team and carry most of it. Also, in the new meta, tanky cc junglers have become quite frequent, so with a tanky/bruiser type jungler and a large AP dealer, your 2v2 situations should be pretty optimal.
For solo queing, I don't have too many suggestions. I play mainly mid and support (mostly support) and have found the support role to be rewarding and also consequential. You can really 'carry' your adc from early to mid, and win your game if you're solo queue support. However, I have found it slightly problematic with adc players who can't cs :/
Honestly though, optimally a good solo queue would be able to play all roles and know almost all the champions, and know a situational build for every type of role and champion. If you don't play all roles well, practice sometime in normals. Honestly though, I don't opt for jungle, top, or adc because I can't carry those roles very well, so I just 'pref mid, can support'.
As for team comps, try to look at what your team is building. If you have a adc corki with a soraka support and a jungle yi, try building some tanky cc (kill lane bot?). If you have a vi jungle, xinzhao top, and a taric bot, try building some damage. Of course, if you do happen to get a zed/zac wukong/oriana, then by all means try an aoe wombo combo comp (those are fun but hard to come by).
Most of all, remember that the most important thing is that you don't win by kills, you win by objectives. It will be much easier to win by getting more gold, but the game only ends in your favor if you destroy the enemy nexus. If you must splitpush, remember to make a distraction for the enemy team.