Is defensive item stacking ever going to be fixed?

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TK464

Senior Member

11-03-2012

Serious question, never seen a team lose when they stack defensive items. The problem seems mostly to be with tanks and support, with some offenders being worse than others. I ask because it's honestly just not fun, I don't like losing waiting for the game to load because the other team has a Lulu or decided to run with champs who don't need scaling. When you're playing a burst champion and the enemy team is like this there is really nothing you can do, and it's just not fun at all.


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Catnium

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Senior Member

11-03-2012

ah if there is one thing i hate its a squishy whining about defence
your match history shows you play more bruisers ..so what you on about ?


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Hamm3rhand

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Senior Member

11-03-2012

With the armor pen changes upcoming in S3, the way that people itemize will be different because of the % before pen. Of course, there will be sweeping item changes across the board, so everything will be different.

Now, looking at your builds...I've never been a fan of ghostblade on darius, but its not the worst thing in the world. I tend to get FH for my CDR though, rather than the blade, and use lw and mallet for damage. BUT...it does seem like you tend to have only one major (and maybe a second minor) defensive item, but it seems to be like mallet which is only health rather than effective health. In cases like this, especially when you play melee champs - dar, gp, ad yi, you have to be up in their face and generally up in the middle of their team. So, you either have to stack a lot of lifesteal (not really feasible on darius) or be really tanky yourself. Just the nature of the game, because you are going to be focused in that situation.


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TK464

Senior Member

11-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catnium View Post
ah if there is one thing i hate its a squishy whining about defence
your match history shows you play more bruisers ..so what you on about ?
Even as a bruiser I can't even compete, for example Darius who's recent in match history. I rely on bursting someone, but that entire game I got literally zero ult resets because Lulu was always there. I mean it's not just a 1v1 type thing, there was multiple situations where we initiated on their hardest hitter with 3 or 4 of us and all Lulu had to do was roll her face across the keys with the mouse over him to turn an easy kill into everyone on my team dying and no one on hers dying.

I mean feel free to check my last match since you're looking, another loss from Lulu. Strong start with good teamwork but as the game went on we just couldn't kill anyone and lost.

EDIT: And please guys, stop treating my match history like it's my life record of League. I own almost every single champion and have played and still play a huge amount in a variety of builds. It's not just a case of a guy building wrong and then complaining, it happens on almost every champion. AP, AD Carry, AD Assassin, AP Assassin, Bruiser, certain tanks and support.

At risk of turning this into a Lulu whine fest, it's the most blatant example. If you go for her then she runs away with the durability of a tank combined with a support, if you go for her carry/assassin/whatever then she just pops all her spells on him turning him into a tank and runs around spamming things while you get destroyed by their tank carry.

Honestly it might be primarily because supports are designed to be useful in teamfights, and in Dom teamfights tend to be much smaller making the amount of power they have much higher.


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Ethereal Sol

Member

11-03-2012

Interestingly enough, Morello has repeatedly (with the most recent being ~yesterday) called for lulu to be buffed.

I personally would hate to see dominion devolve into 5 glass cannons vs 5 glass cannons, myself.


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TK464

Senior Member

11-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethereal Sol View Post
Interestingly enough, Morello has repeatedly (with the most recent being ~yesterday) called for lulu to be buffed.

I personally would hate to see dominion devolve into 5 glass cannons vs 5 glass cannons, myself.
I agree, but at the same time there's something wrong about a tank and a "support" holding a turret from 4 people on the other team just because they do nothing but stack defensive items. Because of the nature of capture points you can't just run up and smack them down like a turret, and creep waves are much weaker and easier to demolish. Add in the fact that turrets regenerate and it's very easy to just stall the game and win through attrition.


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Hamm3rhand

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Senior Member

11-03-2012

Lulu in specific is a known OP champ. In my opinion a good lulu is on par with kassadin and jayce as far as strength goes.

Anytime people tend to complain about builds (happens a lot) i tend to check the builds they've been using recently as that is all we have to go on. Its not like i can see your entire league history, but in general its things that have happened over the past few games or days that make people post like this.

Looking at the last game you played, i'd say that was more of a team comp issue than anything else. Who was your bot laner, ez? and theirs was ez or lux i assume? Either way, you have a three melee and zil top, where they have tons of poke, ranged CC with glitterlance and lux, and 3 aoe ults, along with a tanky frontline and a support to help save whoever dies. They had a very balanced comp, but y'all didn't. I'd say you might have lost at champ select.

The game before that was probably a team comp issue too. I'm guessing jax was bot vs gragas, so that gives Darius, Naut, Fiddle, Syndra vs Malphite, Lulu, MF, Pantheon. They are playing protect the MF and that comp works really well for that. That allows MF to build really high damage, while your team has more of a dps comp. Not to mention that assuming MF is smart, really the only way that you are going to get to her is to have naut or fiddle ult on her, at which point lulu will ult her. Your team would probably really benefit from a shurellia's in that scenario.

Its a team game, lulu wouldn't win the games by herself, 1v1 vs a darius or jarvan and she'd almost certainly lose (might could run away). And MF vs darius or jarvan could go either way really depending on how the skillshots land/cooldowns. But thats not the nature of the game, especially on dominion where teamfights are much more common than in SR


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Ethereal Sol

Member

11-03-2012

If both of their tankiest players are on a point, it almost always means that their ability to defend some other point is vastly diminished as they are most likely just deploying squishies. Therefore, threatening a different point in this situation is likely the correct play.


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Hamm3rhand

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Senior Member

11-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TK464 View Post
I agree, but at the same time there's something wrong about a tank and a "support" holding a turret from 4 people on the other team just because they do nothing but stack defensive items. Because of the nature of capture points you can't just run up and smack them down like a turret, and creep waves are much weaker and easier to demolish. Add in the fact that turrets regenerate and it's very easy to just stall the game and win through attrition.
2 people should not be able to hold vs 4 people at full health. The tower will do nothing assuming you are decently coordinated enough to juggle the caps (take turns capping to stall it out until one of the opponents hits you to break the cap) and then that still leaves you with three people to wail on them. If they could kill you in that scenario then they were extremely far ahead.


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FDru

Senior Member

11-03-2012

I remember when Lulu sucked before people learned how to play her.

I wish SR players would learn how to play so OP champs stop getting buffed.


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