Remove elo loss from surrender

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Swooshter

Senior Member

07-13-2012

Why should I lose elo simply because the rest of my team decides to quit and surrender? There should be some sort of check, that if the 4 team mates surrender, but I click no, I should not lose elo. That, or just remove the ability to surrender from ranked play.


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Hi Im Derrick

Member

07-13-2012

Because the team still lost, no1 would ever loose elo if they didnt remove it for a surrender...


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Swooshter

Senior Member

07-13-2012

Did you even read what I posted? If my team all vote to surrender (even though we are not even down by much), how is it fair that I have to take the loss, even if I do not agree to surrender. IMO, surrender has no place in ranked matches. Surrendering is a defeatist attitude and is not what ranked is about. If they want the win, they should have to destroy my nexus.

Either remove surrendering from ranked (solo que) or do not punish those that are still willing to try. Matches can turn around in a heartbeat because someone does something stupid.


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Dubloh

Junior Member

07-13-2012

No, remove elo loss if someone leaves or d/c's in the first 15 minutes of the match, and doesn't come back. And definitely remove elo loss when one player doesn't connect in the first place, and never comes back.


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Selcopa

Senior Member

07-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swooshter View Post
Why should I lose elo simply because the rest of my team decides to quit and surrender? There should be some sort of check, that if the 4 team mates surrender, but I click no, I should not lose elo. That, or just remove the ability to surrender from ranked play.
Lol, remove elo loss from surrender? I could crown this the worst suggestion of 2012 but we have 5 months to go and i dont think your account has been banned(good thing im not a mod)

Before posting, seriously consider the consequences of whatever idea you come up with would happen, for one thing, no one would surrender, they would just sit in fountain and base, no one would initiate a surrender vote because it means they wouldnt get to recover their elo, also no one would vote yes, they would wait for other people to vote because if they can get 4 yes's they can vote no and get out of jail free. You have just killed the entire purpose of the surrender vote.

Now removing the ability to surrender, possible, except that i've seen surrendering in high level competitive play like qualifiers and even live matches, there are instances where it is apparent that I am unable to come back, even if an enemy disconnects, feeds, or some other reason, however they are playing a safe strategy, or otherwise i accept that it will probably take 10-15 minutes more for them finish the game, yet there is minimal to zero possibility of an upset. If 4 people on my team agree to this, then chances are they werent going to be able to comeback even if you remove the ability to surrender.

The fact is the situations where 4 players surrender and you legitimately had a chance to come back are so few and far between that it simply does not warrant the removal of surrender.

In addition, it doesnt stop people from afking on the fountain, or just roaming in base waiting for the team to lose, this is definitely something we want to discourage players from doing


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Wieeed

Senior Member

07-15-2012

Kid who is worried about his elo.
/thread


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Fanaticmogg

Senior Member

07-16-2012

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to abuseable.

Can you imagine the arguments between teams where everyone wants to surrender, but two people feel they deserve to keep their ELO more than anyone else on the team?

In short, every surrender would give one player the chance to keep their ELO, whether or not they all want to surrender. This means that one player could, in theory, arrange themselves to gain ELO simply by convincing their teammates to surrender every game unless the other team is made up of feeders and trolls. They could even intentionally sabotage their games, cause their teammates to surrender, and then wait for games in which their teammates win anyways, and then actually gain ELO by trolling.


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Swooshter

Senior Member

07-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticmogg View Post
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to abuseable.

Can you imagine the arguments between teams where everyone wants to surrender, but two people feel they deserve to keep their ELO more than anyone else on the team?

In short, every surrender would give one player the chance to keep their ELO, whether or not they all want to surrender. This means that one player could, in theory, arrange themselves to gain ELO simply by convincing their teammates to surrender every game unless the other team is made up of feeders and trolls. They could even intentionally sabotage their games, cause their teammates to surrender, and then wait for games in which their teammates win anyways, and then actually gain ELO by trolling.
I didnt say you would gain elo for it. I said you wouldnt lose elo. Some people (especially new players it seems) are way too surrender happy. I have had games where we are even on kills and towers, but one person on enemy side is a bit fed (but horrible at late game), and people want to surrender because they do not understand the concept that you can turn a game around. To be honest, I have been very surprised on some of the games I have won, where the enemy team surrenders. To me, thats a free win, since there are few times when you are so beaten that you cannot win (5v5 that is... if it is 3v5, that is another story).

Personally, I would much rather they just remove surrendering from ranked solo que. As to the arguments with teams of only 3 people wanting to surrender, that already happens. Normally, the 3 troll or afk, in which case you can report them (those types of people should not be playing ranked anyway).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selcopa View Post
Now removing the ability to surrender, possible, except that i've seen surrendering in high level competitive play like qualifiers and even live matches, there are instances where it is apparent that I am unable to come back, even if an enemy disconnects, feeds, or some other reason, however they are playing a safe strategy, or otherwise i accept that it will probably take 10-15 minutes more for them finish the game, yet there is minimal to zero possibility of an upset. If 4 people on my team agree to this, then chances are they werent going to be able to comeback even if you remove the ability to surrender.

The fact is the situations where 4 players surrender and you legitimately had a chance to come back are so few and far between that it simply does not warrant the removal of surrender.

In addition, it doesnt stop people from afking on the fountain, or just roaming in base waiting for the team to lose, this is definitely something we want to discourage players from doing
I am not talking about high level team play, I am talking about solo que play, and more importantly, lower elo play. If you have ever played for an extended amount of time in lower elos, then you would realize that 4 players agreeing surrendering isnt just about not having a chance, it is more about people not knowing the game and giving up way too early. If you are surrendering at 20 mins with only 1 tower down and the enemy only have 2-3 more kills, that is way too soon.

Again, I realize it does not stop people from afking or sitting at base and not helping, but at least those actions are reportable and bannable. If you have it in your mind that you want to surrender, dont play ranked. When is the last time you saw a professional sports team forfeit the game even if they are losing badly? From my viewpoint, if they want the win, they need to destroy the nexus. I am not going to give them a free win simply because my teammates think it is hopeless (especially when it is not).


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Selcopa

Senior Member

07-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swooshter View Post
I didnt say you would gain elo for it. I said you wouldnt lose elo.
You aren't understanding the concept. What he is saying, is that you can jockey yourself a position so that you never lose elo(because your team always surrenders) and only gain elo in games that you are going to win easily, essentially gaining free elo because you are not the cause of your wins, but you are not losing elo on your losses
Quote:
Some people (especially new players it seems) are way too surrender happy. I have had games where we are even on kills and towers, but one person on enemy side is a bit fed (but horrible at late game), and people want to surrender because they do not understand the concept that you can turn a game around. To be honest, I have been very surprised on some of the games I have won, where the enemy team surrenders. To me, thats a free win, since there are few times when you are so beaten that you cannot win (5v5 that is... if it is 3v5, that is another story).
Exactly, you have to accept that it happens on both sides, you cant control people, if they dont want to continue the game, they wont.

Quote:
Personally, I would much rather they just remove surrendering from ranked solo que. As to the arguments with teams of only 3 people wanting to surrender, that already happens. Normally, the 3 troll or afk, in which case you can report them (those types of people should not be playing ranked anyway).
It takes 4 people to surrender, unless there's a dc(in which case the dc counts as a vote surrender)



Quote:
I am not talking about high level team play, I am talking about solo que play, and more importantly, lower elo play. If you have ever played for an extended amount of time in lower elos, then you would realize that 4 players agreeing surrendering isnt just about not having a chance, it is more about people not knowing the game and giving up way too early. If you are surrendering at 20 mins with only 1 tower down and the enemy only have 2-3 more kills, that is way too soon.
They surrender in high elo solo queue as well, and id like to retain my ability to surrender. If players are surrendering too early in low elo, their elo will drop, you Yourself said it happens on both sides, because you personally arent surrendering too early, then in this instance of 100 surrenders, your side will have less of them, therefore, your elo will rise due to the fact people are able to make the mistake of surrendering too early. So it should benefit you.

Quote:
Again, I realize it does not stop people from afking or sitting at base and not helping, but at least those actions are reportable and bannable. If you have it in your mind that you want to surrender, dont play ranked. When is the last time you saw a professional sports team forfeit the game even if they are losing badly? From my viewpoint, if they want the win, they need to destroy the nexus. I am not going to give them a free win simply because my teammates think it is hopeless (especially when it is not).
Im quite sure you can surrender in MMA, so there's your example, and if your teams keep surrendering before its over, maybe you should give your team reason to believe they can still win, i have people rage on my low elo account all the time, part of the skill of winning solo queue is convincing your team that you still can come back from behind.


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Swooshter

Senior Member

07-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selcopa View Post
They surrender in high elo solo queue as well, and id like to retain my ability to surrender. If players are surrendering too early in low elo, their elo will drop, you Yourself said it happens on both sides, because you personally arent surrendering too early, then in this instance of 100 surrenders, your side will have less of them, therefore, your elo will rise due to the fact people are able to make the mistake of surrendering too early. So it should benefit you.
How will my side have less surrenders? It only takes 4 to surrender, not 5. Even if I chose not to surrender, the other 4 can still override that, leaving me with 0 choice and an elo loss. You say in other threads to carry the game. How can I carry the game if the other 4 chose to surrender?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selcopa View Post
Im quite sure you can surrender in MMA, so there's your example, and if your teams keep surrendering before its over, maybe you should give your team reason to believe they can still win, i have people rage on my low elo account all the time, part of the skill of winning solo queue is convincing your team that you still can come back from behind.
Because MMA is a team sport.... /rollseyes. Convincing them you can still win is great, if it wasnt for the fact that most surrender votes take less than 20 seconds. Not much time for you to convince them.

End of story, surrendering has no place in ranked solo que. If you do not want to play to the end of the game, it is not the game for you. That is like saying I want to be a professional football player, but never wanting to finish or go to practice. Even if you still lose, you still have a chance of learning a thing or two. It is about practice and conditioning. If you give up half way through most of the games, you will never do well. In fact, I am pretty certain you said something similar in another thread on the topic of surrendering a while back


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