@Riot: Buff Eleisa's Miracle or remove it.

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Zetasphere

Senior Member

11-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skernan View Post
1. It builds from one, genius.
2. So?
3. Health/Mana regen is a cornerstone of tanky support.
4. If you're playing a Support, you should have at least heal on you.

Clairvoyance is pretty much trash aside from the early invade, and I never see revive outside of bots, but you should have heal or clarity as a support.
1) If it's a choice between this new item or Shurelya's (and you don' have a Skarner jungle to buy Shurelya's for you), supports will pick Shurelya's.

2) Support champs support the team. Aura items are powerful and allow carries to benefit from what are essentially bonus items by having Aegis/Zeke's/etc.

3) HP5 and MP5 aren't tanky stats. New Eleisa's provides no bonus armor or bonus health and even Tenacity is removed. It's not a tank item. It provides some longevity but no inherent tankiness.

4) You obviously do not play support. Rarely do supports run Heal and nowhere beyond level 5 do supports run Clarity. Exhaust and Flash are much, much better.


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Stark6000

Senior Member

11-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DespicableBish View Post
I really don't see this item being used on supports.You need wards more than anything and to be able to provide those you will need gp10 items.After that you get auras for your team in most cases(if not all cases).

Even if it builds from a gp10 by the time you upgrade it, you simply won't need it.You won't need the aid passive either.

I can see it working on providing grounds though, hue.

Thank you!!! I'm losing my mind reading all these posts that would actually buy it. By the time you are done with your gp10 and you want to upgrade to this, it becomes useless anyways.


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Mahoh

Senior Member

11-08-2012

Make it shoot a healing heart laser at someone!


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Sir Bel de Mont

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Member

11-08-2012

How about going a bit further and changing Shurelia's Reverie to build from Elesias rather than Philo, and changing the second passive slightly

Second passive
Unique Passive: If you gain 3 levels while holding Eleisa's Miracle, you gain 10 HP/5, 15 MP/5 and the Aid Passive permanently, but HP/5 and MP/5 gains from Eleisa's Miracle is lowered by 75% and MP/5 gains from Shurelia's Reverie are lowered by 50%.


Change Shurelia's Reverie cost to:
Elesias + Kindlegem + 225 (1175 + 850 + 225 = 2250, 500 more gold than current).

This gives some support and tanks a choice between a bit more HP/5 and MP/5 vs a bit more gold from holding on to the Philo. For extra gold, or get an early/mid eleisa's for the extra passive stats. Numbers for both can be tweaked; not sure how to touch the Shurelia's HP/5 from the buff without making it a net loss to hold Eleisa's for 3 levels (maybe 1/4th?). This change also makes it so tha you can sell back the Eleisa's after gaining the passive boost for some gold and maybe make it viable early-game option for non-supports/tanks so their gold isn't entirely thrown away on regen stats.


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Celebi

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Recruiter

11-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
The current plan is to pull those for now. We had an interesting Spellblade variant that was neat - but it needed *a lot* more work before it goes live.

My current line of thought on Tenacity items is that - you really don't need an alternative to Tenacity items in a lot of cases. Tenacity isn't the right solution on *a lot* of champion roles. Tenacity, for example, isn't really all that helpful on carries who need something a little beefier or stronger for their CC reduction needs.

While we're churning on those - Merc Threads should suffice for a bit.

Basically when the mod / community team catches on that I've been talking about more stuff at odd hours.
Just promise me you won't toss the icons out the window, Moonflair Spellblade has got to be the coolest looking item in the game along with Lich Bane and Youmuu's Ghostblade.

I don't like it when icons get tossed out...


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Gundaime Kai

Senior Member

11-08-2012

WTF is Eleisa's Miracle? Wait that **** that builds from a Philo stone? I have yet to see it used in game lol


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salatji

Member

11-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Tentative Stats (In Testing)

Eleisa's Miracle
(1175 Gold)
+10 Health per 5 seconds
+15 Mana per 5 seconds
Removed Tenacity
Unique Passive - Aid: Your Heal, Clairvoyance and Revive cooldowns are reduced by 20%
Unique Passive: If you gain 3 levels while holding Eleisa's Miracle, you gain 10 HP/5, 15 MP/5 and the Aid Passive permanently and the item disappears from your inventory.

Hopefully it'll be interesting on Dominion/Murderbridge and Supports - while also indirectly giving supports an extra item slot to work with. It's probably terrible but something I wanted to try.
Heal is useless on Support, because your carry will only recieve 50%, so it was used/is used on the AD-carry.

Revive is a useless summonerspell itself, so well, awesome to reduce the CD.

Clairvoyance is kinda outdated on supports, so theory nice idea, but well, wasted summonerspellslot....


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BadgerDrool

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Senior Member

11-08-2012

My gut is that I'd be really willing to spend 1175 Gold early in lane phase on a number of champions on it. A number of not support champions.

Taking the Heal, Clairvoyance, and Revive aside my gut says that amount of mana regen is just enough to let certain lane harass champions solve a mana issue without burdening a late game item set up.

Take Gangplank. Would I really need anything more then +15 mana regen all game from items? Especially +15 Mana Regen that goes permanent after 3 levels and gives me okay health regen?

It seems like it'd be just enough to let him be rather aggressive in lane. It might dead-end but it does so by a becoming boost. It should be enough of a boost to be independant of other mana solutions and let him not OOM late game.

Sivir is another champion this makes me arch an eyebrow for. I realize solo AD carry lanes are out of style but if she has just enough regen she can really harass hard.

So none-support champions that are mana gated but not so much they usually go for a big solution. Philo stone is typically just a little too little Mana Regen and this item gives almost twice as much. Granted no gold passive but if enough mana to harass hard lets me win lane and free farm...

Of course I say all that without really knowing what the gold cost will mean in S3. It's also not clear how much that health regen will compare to other health regen options. For all I know Philosphers Stone is getting hit hard and this will suddenly be one of the cheaper options in it's category. Maybe Manamune will suddenly be a solid buy and thus the very champions that come to mind will want something else anyway...

I will say that it's interesting to think of Revive Gangplank. In the context of flash's cooldown being even longer, having a global ult, having W+E for escape, and Parly for last hits...Well it feels like a pairing worth trying.


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turulHAARP

Senior Member

11-08-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Tentative Stats (In Testing)

Eleisa's Miracle
(1175 Gold)
+10 Health per 5 seconds
+15 Mana per 5 seconds
Removed Tenacity
Unique Passive - Aid: Your Heal, Clairvoyance and Revive cooldowns are reduced by 20%
Unique Passive: If you gain 3 levels while holding Eleisa's Miracle, you gain 10 HP/5, 15 MP/5 and the Aid Passive permanently and the item disappears from your inventory.

Hopefully it'll be interesting on Dominion/Murderbridge and Supports - while also indirectly giving supports an extra item slot to work with. It's probably terrible but something I wanted to try.
Yeah it could be interesting on Dominion/Murderbridge but not on SR.

You reduced hp regen by 15(that's a lot),mana regen by 5 ,REMOVED TENACITY and gave the item a broken unique passive beceuase -20% cd on CV is something ridiculous as well as on Heal and then there is Revive for some reason.
But i get a free item slot.
Also in most games supports won't use up all item slots.Furthermore to gain back the removed tenacity i would need to buy Moonflair spellblade which is not suited for supports and costs 1200 gold.

Thanks but no.That tenacity is godlike on this item.Hell this item is godlike on Sona especially.
B-but buy Shurelia's instead.Who said i can't buy both?

If you want to streamline this item try to test this:

Eleisa’s Miracle
  • Now builds out of Philosopher Stone and Meki Pendant (instead of just Philosopher Stone)
  • Upgrade cost reduced to 410 from 500 (total cost 1600 from 1300)
  • Now can place wards like Wriggle’s Lantern
It's not too interesting but it could actually work.I know your? idea belongs possibly into "think-outside-the-box" category but in my opinion it's bad ON SR.I can't give any opinion regarding this item on dominion/murderbridge.


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HaIfhearted

Senior Member

11-08-2012

Ok, that item is either one of the most useless items ever created, or one of the most broken OP items ever created.

Xypherous, have you ever watched the weekly DominateDominion tournament?
ALL of the top teams run a full 5 revive comp. Revive is an absolutely mandatory spell in Dominion, even slightly moreso than Flash is on Summoners Rift.

With that being said though, if you rush this item, it would leave you extremely weak and a lot less useful for pretty much all of early game, including the initial windmill fight.
And even if you do rush it, most likely your first revive is going to be unaffected by the improved CDR, and even then you probably won't be getting any more uses out of it unless the game drags on for an extremely long time (25 minutes +)

Also, at higher level play people don't just use their revive whenever its up, but rather hold on to it and use it strategically when they can get something out of it, so really I can only see this item being useful in extremely rare cases, where it goes from being useless to being the most OP gamechanger ever.

----

Honestly, the only thing I like about it is the mechanic that allows you to "absorb" a useless item lategame and free up slots.

That concept could be an interesting way to incorporate the other tenacity items and I feel has a lot of potential, so I hope to see it being put to good use in the future.