RNG and Minion Pushing

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Nea De Penserhir

Senior Member

10-31-2012

I just encountered the absolute worst minion push ever in Twisted Treeline. It's the kind of thing that you don't really think about in the opening 2 minutes, and when I realized it, it was too late. It was essentially game over from that point.

I won't go into detail of the 2 minute walk/poke fest for early map control. Suffice to say that it didn't go well, so we retreated to salvage what we could. Not a single minion in either lane was touched by any champion at this point.

Top lane pushed so hard on it's own. I don't even know how. I just know that when I looked at it, of the 6 minion wave that started, the entirety of Purple Side was gone with 4 near dead minions being reinforced by a fresh wave for Blue side. However, with fresh warrior minions at the front, the nearly dead caster minions just shoved it.

Our early foray that ended in less than desirable ways meant we were already a little behind. negligible, really. Jungle would have a slow start, bottom lane was stable. The proper approach to this is just play defensive and stall out for an opportunity.

This RNG minion push completely threw that on it's head. Perhaps champion choice was the reason it hit so hard, but as Annie, I had only losing options. If I stay, I die. The opponent, well played without a doubt, simply froze the lane and left me with the choice to stay and get ganked, or leave and be completely ineffective.

This was a crippling setback. We were already behind. Yes, that could have gone better, that isn't the focus here; It's the fact that random minion focusing completely stopped any chance for a come back. Opponent was safely nestled within flash range of a turret and froze the lane like an expert. I'm not sure if anyone has ever tried level 1 roaming Annie, but I can assure you it is ineffective.

I couldn't stay, I would have died to a gank for how far pushed it was. I couldn't even return to lane once it was in a more favorable position because I was then at a level deficit. I couldn't roam because A) Their jungler had the lead and was stronger and B) Annie without a bear is about as effective as Sona with perma silence.

This was a game of can'ts. I had no options. I couldn't jungle farm because our own jungler was set back by the aforementioned "we done screwed up level 1". I couldn't farm bottom because, frankly, bottom needed their levels to catch up too.

Attempting a 3 man push for a lane reset did not seem feasible. We're simply losing team experience and gold, more than resetting the top lane would have been worth, and no guarantee the gambit would have gone well.

So, asking TTers more experienced than I;

In the event this happens again, is there any course of action to be taken to turn this around? This was a perfect storm of bad-occurrences, but even in Summoner's Rift, you still pretty much got until the 15 minute mark before it's hopeless, not the 2:15 mark when you realize you're completely !@#%ed.

Other than champion choice; I understand that an AP like Annie thrown into that situation is just proper !#%ed, but I don't see many other champion choices that could take that huge, crippling set back and turn it into something salvageable.


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Luego

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Senior Member

11-01-2012

I'm not sure I understand. He can't freeze a lane without your cooperation, can he? Stay w/in exp range, and if he even last-hits for gold the lane pushes back towards mid. You lose gold from like 6 minions. Or just go do a jungle camp (yes, at lvl 1. It'll kick you hard, but you just B and heal up and go back to lane). He'll probably have a lvl on you, but that's manageable and just makes it a conservative lane for a while.

As far as how it happened, was it just rng? Or did someone mess with the pathing of the minions on the way? That can make a difference.


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chaser676

Senior Member

11-01-2012

There was a big reddit post about level 1 minion waves and the probabilities associated with how they. I'll try to find it, but it was something to the effect of the odds of 4 or more minions surviving without interference by champions (including pathing) was less than 1 in a thousand.


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Nea De Penserhir

Senior Member

11-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luego View Post
I'm not sure I understand. He can't freeze a lane without your cooperation, can he? Stay w/in exp range, and if he even last-hits for gold the lane pushes back towards mid. You lose gold from like 6 minions. Or just go do a jungle camp (yes, at lvl 1. It'll kick you hard, but you just B and heal up and go back to lane). He'll probably have a lvl on you, but that's manageable and just makes it a conservative lane for a while.

As far as how it happened, was it just rng? Or did someone mess with the pathing of the minions on the way? That can make a difference.
As stated, the early push for map control didn't end in our favor, so we were slightly behind. The issue was that the minion wave pushed on its own well beyond the halfway point, where they would have had three of the pathways available to flank me. Staying was a very bad option in the sense that I wouldn't actually get that much exp, and I was an easy gank. Level 1 vs 2 level 2s isn't going to go well.

It was a completely untouched by champions because we were all in the middle fighting for early map control.


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WillWW

Senior Member

11-01-2012

That kinda oppositely happened to me one game too. I pushed my bot lane one wave, left it unattended to go gank top. And for like 5 minutes, I couldn't go farm because my minions kept getting stacked near his turret. My opponent gained like 3 lvls above me because of that one push. I was so confused as to why his waves never got pushed to me so I could farm, since he was killing off my waves.