Melee Carry Itemization

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TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Tiamat apparently getting some Dev attention from Riot, guess we'll see what it does for MADCs. If they up the splash radius, it might help MADCs deter the enemy team from clustering up and mobbing them with that 5v1 focus.


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The Blue Jelly

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastBaron88 View Post
Tiamat apparently getting some Dev attention from Riot, guess we'll see what it does for MADCs. If they up the splash radius, it might help MADCs deter the enemy team from clustering up and mobbing them with that 5v1 focus.
It would need some pretty massive range buffs for that to be the case. Most ranged sources of damage can provide it from 400+ distance; the current splash is under 200, and 250+ would likely be abject broken in the hands of Twitch/Fiora/Shy/Malph/etc who can already get multiple procs on the same attack.


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TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

11-10-2012

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Originally Posted by The Blue Jelly View Post
It would need some pretty massive range buffs for that to be the case. Most ranged sources of damage can provide it from 400+ distance; the current splash is under 200, and 250+ would likely be abject broken in the hands of Twitch/Fiora/Shy/Malph/etc who can already get multiple procs on the same attack.
Making the passive Unique so it can't be stacked would help cut down on the abuse of game mechanics like those you suggested (also Gangplank), not to mention that in the case of Ranged characters, the effect is currently reduced by 15%.
I have no issue with ranged characters focusing melee carries, that is just the way of things, and most team comps only have two ranged damage dealers, the RADC and AP carry, with the occasional support whose damage is usually negligible. But if you are focusing one of those carries, which you should be as a MADC, then also having their bruiser and tank on top of you is what seals your fate. By allowing you to output more net damage in a shorter space of time, you become a bit more viable in teamfights because even if you die, you have contributed the damage your team needs from a carry. At least, that is my theory.
Truthfully, I think the splash radius should be about 125-150, as 125 is melee range, at which point you are already right on top of them. Having anything with less range than that just feels like a wasted stat. (The current splash radius is about 97, well below melee range)


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tralfalmadorian

Junior Member

11-11-2012

i fear buffing melee carries would make olaf and jax terrifying


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TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

11-11-2012

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Originally Posted by tralfalmadorian View Post
i fear buffing melee carries would make olaf and jax terrifying
Jax is a hybrid, and is generally considered to be more of a bruiser, I think. Olaf definitely falls into the Bruiser category however, as his whole kit revolves around being tanky and disruptive. Of the two, Jax is closer to being considered a MADC, and as such, still isn't generally considered to be viable.


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axesandspears

Senior Member

11-12-2012

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Originally Posted by The Blue Jelly View Post
It would need some pretty massive range buffs for that to be the case. Most ranged sources of damage can provide it from 400+ distance; the current splash is under 200, and 250+ would likely be abject broken in the hands of Twitch/Fiora/Shy/Malph/etc who can already get multiple procs on the same attack.
A simple stat change from regen+damage to defense+damage would make this more interesting, but yea there are risks with Twitch, Fiora, and Shyvanna due to mutiplicative splashing. Malphite doesn't have this problem.


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TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

11-12-2012

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Originally Posted by axesandspears View Post
A simple stat change from regen+damage to defense+damage would make this more interesting, but yea there are risks with Twitch, Fiora, and Shyvanna due to mutiplicative splashing. Malphite doesn't have this problem.
Actually, giving Tiamat Armor instead of Regen would really help to protect Melee Carries from one of their biggest problems, mainly that they are unable to build armor in the same item slot as an offensive stat (not counting Atmas, since it is aimed more at tanky dps). Not like most melees really need mana regen that badly anyway. Could help keep them from being so easily instagibbed.
As far as the passive being abused, I think it is more of a threat in its current incarnation than it would be with a buffed, but Unique passive. There is just no reason for an item effect to deal more damage to secondary targets than to your primary target. (Tiamat Stacking)


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67chrome

Senior Member

11-12-2012

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Originally Posted by TheLastBaron88 View Post
Jax is a hybrid, and is generally considered to be more of a bruiser, I think. Olaf definitely falls into the Bruiser category however, as his whole kit revolves around being tanky and disruptive. Of the two, Jax is closer to being considered a MADC, and as such, still isn't generally considered to be viable.
Regardless of what auto-attack reliant bruisers like Olaf, Jax, Irelia, and Xin Zhao are classified as, they will all be able to put just about any item designed exclusively for Melee AD Carries to better use simply because they operate in nearly exactly the same way - except they are tanky enough to be played viably.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastBaron88 View Post
Actually, giving Tiamat Armor instead of Regen would really help to protect Melee Carries from one of their biggest problems, mainly that they are unable to build armor in the same item slot as an offensive stat (not counting Atmas, since it is aimed more at tanky dps).
I'm totally for exchanging the regenerations for armor as well - the survivability options of MADCs concerning armor is: Wriggle's Lantern. Which is incredibly depressing in ARAM and Dominion were said item is non-existent. (Madred's Bloodrazors have to little armor for the price tag to really make it noteworthy or effective at counter-building, and Atma's Impaler is an end game item - which defeats the purpose of counter-building completely)

I mean, sure you can pick up a Guardian Angel, Randuin's Omen, Thornmail, or Frozen Heart, but all the labeled MADCs rely on item scaling alone to accomplish things, were at least Xin, Irelia, Olaf, and Jax have plenty of help from useful abilities to help keep them relevant.


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Benjochito

Member

11-12-2012

well you can take in accoun that some meele carries like xin zhao or master yi got gap closer


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TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

11-12-2012

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Originally Posted by Benjochito View Post
well you can take in accoun that some meele carries like xin zhao or master yi got gap closer
I am. And so is the rest of the community. Gap closers assist with one of a MADCs biggest problems, which is Kiting, but not THE single issue that renders MADCs impotent: the fact that a squishy melee has to be in the thick of things to do damage, and cannot withstand the focus of a whole team. In fact, gap closers arguably worsen the situation by giving MADCs the ability to hasten their demise by putting them ahead of their frontline.

That said, I'm really not sure what point you are trying to make, as Riot rarely releases champs without some kind of gap closer these days.