Melee Carry Itemization

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RockJockey

Senior Member

10-31-2012

To build anti-CC items like Banshee's veil and QSS, ADC's lose out on their damage (Riot obviously intended for this).
Cleanse is good for RADCs, I often take it when I play Ashe. MADCs like Master Yi who often jungle can't swap out Flash or Exhaust for Cleanse because it's a necessity for ganking. THis leaves them in a tight spot when it comes to TeamFights.
GA is unreliable.

So of the these few options options, none of them truly clear up the problem because each sacrifice the MADC's DpS.
If there was an item similar to a mini Olaf Ultimate or a Morgana's Black Shield that was AD based to allow MADCs to ignore CC for a few seconds so they could do damage without losing too much on their build it would be perfect.
-Rockjockey


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TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

11-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
Melee carries are mechanically designed improperly; it's not their items, but rather their innate kits.
How do you mean? Can you suggest a kit for a melee carry that would be both viable and balanced? Or do you mean to say that this is a technical impossibility in League?


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axesandspears

Senior Member

11-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastBaron88 View Post
How do you mean? Can you suggest a kit for a melee carry that would be both viable and balanced? Or do you mean to say that this is a technical impossibility in League?
Technical impossibility in LoL.

The only "successful" attempt was Jax back when he gained health from AD and AP, and that obviously turned him into a bruiser, not a melee carry.

Melee carries do exist in DotA, but DotA has relatively ridiculous amounts of cc and damage, much more variable stats, and items that could never be balanced in LoL. DotA is balanced on the "everything dies fast or can't do anything; therefore balance doesn't matter" approach. The game itself is not actually balanced, it merely appears to be.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

11-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastBaron88 View Post
How do you mean? Can you suggest a kit for a melee carry that would be both viable and balanced? Or do you mean to say that this is a technical impossibility in League?
Like axes said, it's more of an impossibility. Really, the melee carries have been eclipsed by bruisers and assassins, who are more specialized in the two jobs that melee carries could pull off.

The closest things to melee carries today are Wukong, Riven, and Jax before his last rework. This is because their kits have enough innate defense to handle close combat, and enough scaling to actually carry late game when they pull off their optimal damage output. Actually, Sion and Poppy can sort of carry as well, except they both take far too long to build up; plus Sion can still be easily shut down after he hits carry capacity.


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TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

11-01-2012

So an item granting an automatic 6 second CC shield when your champ reaches 50% health probably wouldn't change this then?


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

11-01-2012

It would change carry viability. However, it would also make bruisers and assassins even more powerful.

Melee carries in LoL have been overridden in effectiveness, because they're not as tanky as bruisers, and they're not as dangerous as assassins. Adding anything that would help melee carries would help the others more.


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TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

11-01-2012

Assassins are kinda iffy, since you can usually just kill those. But how to do anything that benefits melee carries that WOULDN'T strongly benefit Bruisers. For that matter, what makes a Bruiser different from a Fighter?


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

11-01-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastBaron88 View Post
what makes a Bruiser different from a Fighter?
The tags that Riot uses usually end up getting mixed up; some champions get mis-tagged, some don't live up to their name, and some become really ambiguous.

My interpretation? Fighters are usually champions who can deal a lot of DPS in a team fight, their forte is consistent combat. Bruisers are combat initiators with higher DPS potential and lower CC compared to tanks.


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TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

11-03-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
The tags that Riot uses usually end up getting mixed up; some champions get mis-tagged, some don't live up to their name, and some become really ambiguous.

My interpretation? Fighters are usually champions who can deal a lot of DPS in a team fight, their forte is consistent combat. Bruisers are combat initiators with higher DPS potential and lower CC compared to tanks.
That sounds like an excellent interpretation, about what I was thinking myself. Although, it kind of sounds like my idea of a melee carry as well, in that characters generally considered fighters almost invariably either have some innate lifesteal (i.e. Warwick, Irelia), or build some in order to sustain themselves through a fight. Ala Tryndamere.
Since Melee Carries like Yi and Fiora are much squishier than bruisers and fighters, this being why they are not viable, I wonder if a new AD/Armor item might help them out. I realize Bruisers would want both of those stats, so to make it less viable for them, maybe it could synergize more with Attack Speed, sorta like Wits End?


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TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastBaron88 View Post
Since Melee Carries like Yi and Fiora are much squishier than bruisers and fighters, this being why they are not viable, I wonder if a new AD/Armor item might help them out. I realize Bruisers would want both of those stats, so to make it less viable for them, maybe it could synergize more with Attack Speed, sorta like Wits End?
Just wanted to apologize for suggesting a parallel item, but the only thing I can think to do for MADCs is to give them defensive items that scale with their offense, with Attack Speed being a scalar that does not benefit bruisers nearly so much. CC does seem to be their biggest weakness, as it shuts down the little bit of survivability that their kits give them, as well as limiting their damage output, so I do like the CC Shield suggested by RockJockey as a concept still. I think some changes to Tiamat might make Melees more desirable, since they benefit from it more than ranged characters by default. I have another post about that here http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...thelastbaron88

Most of the good stuff is in the comments, the OP was more a description of what I had seen happen, and less of why. Seems to have been downvoted quite a bit by people who didn't bother to read, most likely as of last tuesday, lol.

Anyone have more to add? It bothers me that ADCs HAVE to be ranged to do their job.