Why must toxic players ruin my games?

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deirin

Senior Member

10-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtheistGuy1 View Post
Yes, it's another ELO hell thread. I'm going to start off by saying that I don't blame others for my failures. If I die, it's my fault; ganked, it's my fault as well; and if I lose my lane, then I can't blame anyone but myself (If there is any blame to be placed at all).

I jumped into the solo queue as I would any other day, when I finally got a game. There were a few dodges, but that's the game. I finally got matched, and the first thing that struck me is that nobody was telling anyone else how to play (As is so unbelievably prevalent in this game). There was no "MID OR I AFK", or "BAN SHEN", no "OMFG U NOOB PICK THIS CHAMP." Nobody told anyone what to pick, where to go, or what to buy for the first half of the game. And there were no insults flung, or accusations of trolling being thrown around (among other things) because someone had the nerve to play their own way.

What happened? We kicked ass, of course! The jungler was awesome (I know how rare that is). He knew where to be, when to be there, and what to do. He even warded when I didn't have the time to. Our mid was holding his own just fine; our bottom (Kayle and Soraka) was even able to take a few turrets while they were at it.

This all went to hell the moment we took Baron. At this point, the other team had taken to grouping together to survive. What happens the moment we're caught off guard? Our mid calls us *******, and Kayle follows suit. The latter then proceeds to wander off to the sides and refuses to help us when we're being stormed (Mid to a lesser extent).

I need not tell you that we lost soon after.

ELO hell doesn't exist because of "noobs and trolls"; it exists because of the inevitable jackass that wants everyone to play the way he tells them to. This is the guy that rages, flames, and threatens to report when someone doesn't get boots right from the start, doesn't ward all the bushes without exception, or when the team has *gasp* two fighter types.

I just wanted to share my thoughts on here.

Tl;dr version: You didn't lose that ranked game because of a "noob." You lost it because of the jerk(s) chewing him out for playing his own way.
ohhh man...the worst is that ur right to some extent...lol...sometimes its that simple...


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AtheistGuy1

Senior Member

10-30-2012

I've yet to see a case where it's not like that. Take tonight. I had done my usual, when some guy decided he was going to be top. He never consulted me or anything. Fine; people play their own way and I honestly don't mind sharing. What does he do when I pick Jax? He flips out, of course! We both end up taking the top lane, I end up taking a ton of the hits so Irelia doesn't zone him out completely, and the whole time he and the team are talking trash (I'll give you one guess as to who was being chewed out as the worst player ever).

Following the team of this thread- what do you think happened to this ace team of mine?


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

10-30-2012

So the problem started in champion select?

Either communicate more, or... if he didn't state he was going top and you did and then he flipped out after you picked a top and you didn't want to trade or he didn't want to trade or whatever and it was clear that there'd be a problem from before the match even started, just dodge?

But the fact of the matter is, this still happens to both teams.


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AtheistGuy1

Senior Member

10-30-2012

You're still missing the point of this.


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

10-30-2012

No. You're missing my point.

You said Elo hell exists because X.

"Elo hell" means you're using some scapegoat to explain why you have a certain Elo rather than a certain higher Elo.

And my whole point is that X happens to the enemy team slightly more often than it happens to your team, therefore you actually have more wins as a result of X behavior than losses.


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AtheistGuy1

Senior Member

10-31-2012

Again, you're missing the point. People get stuck at that ELO because of the attitude. Who it happens to more often isn't the issue.


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t0ad5

Senior Member

10-31-2012

Quote:
I had done my usual, when some guy decided he was going to be top. He never consulted me or anything. Fine; people play their own way and I honestly don't mind sharing. What does he do when I pick Jax?
I'm still trying to wrap my head around why you went top althought your team already had a top, but you insist you arent the problem...

That is a very troll thing to do. Of course your team is going to be mad. Heck, I'm mad at you. =P


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KingSnafu

Senior Member

10-31-2012

the only real way u can say elo hell exists and if u think about it this way then it does and everyones been in it.

It takes at least 1k wins+losses to get your true elo you can win 48% of games and get 2200 elo as long as you stay consistent if you win 60% of games it will happen faster but really if you win at least 48% of your games EVENTUALLY you will hit your true elo which teeters out around the 1k-1.5k win+loss mark if you have only played say 3-400 games in ranked then your elo at that point is moot. Elo is 10% skill 90% time so Elo hell would be this in-between time.

Now if your winning say 40% of your games and you keep blaming everyone else for your losses then you simply are not ready for ranked and should get out before you make it to hard to bring it back up, as the more games you play the harder it is to raise that percentage


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

10-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtheistGuy1 View Post
Again, you're missing the point. People get stuck at that ELO because of the attitude. Who it happens to more often isn't the issue.
The fact that you keep telling me that I'm missing the point, and then you try to prove that I'm missing the point by explaining whatever X reason people get stuck makes me think you're not just missing my point. It makes me think you're just not reading my posts.


AtheistGuy1, I assume you want to rise in Elo. I assume you know that having a negative attitude impacts your ability to win games (since that's what your complaining about in this thread), so I assume that you NEVER have a negative attitude in your ranked matches.

If we can assume that all of this is true, then here's the math.

Let's say that in terms of skill level, you're actually exactly even with the average for your Elo. So in any game in which there's not a negative attitude, you're going to win 50% of them and lose 50% of them. Can you agree to this math? Do I need to elaborate on this math? If you do not understand why this is true, then you need to let me know so I can explain this part further.

Now, IF there is a negative attitude, since it is never you, it must be coming from one of the other 9 players in the match. There is a 4/9 chance that it is a teammate (44.4%) and a 5/9 chance that it is an enemy (55.6%).

Now, this is just the math for when there is one negative player. It gets more complicated with multiple negative attitudes, but the math will still show that when there are an odd number of negative attitude players, the enemy team will have more negative attitudes more often than your team. The enemy team will even have more negative attitudes when there's an even number of negative attitudes, but in this scenario, sometimes both teams have the same number of negative attitudes, so it cancels out.


So, here's the point. Let's say there's a negative attitude in a drastically high percentage of your games. Let's say 80% of your games have a negative attitude. And you're going to play 100 games.

Okay, well in the 20% of the matches in which there is no negative attitude, you win 50% of the time, remember? So for these 20 matches, you have 10 wins and 10 losses.

Now, in the other 80% of the games, I already showed you the math (and if you have questions about ANY math, you MUST let me know so I can explain it further) that demonstrates the enemy team has the negative attitude 55.6% of the time, so that means YOUR team will win 55.6% of these matches, while the enemy team wins the 44.4% of the time your team has the negative attitude. Out of these 80 matches, you'll win roughly 44 of them and lose 36 of them. These are the matches attributed to negative attitudes.

So, after 100 matches, you've won 54 and lost 46. If we assume an an average Elo change of 12.5 (some are as low as 11, some as high as 14, but the average is 12.5), then you'll have gained 100 Elo over the course of these 100 matches. You'll average +1 Elo per match just for being EQUAL skill level to the opponents in your Elo bracket and with negative attitudes determining the outcome of 80% of the matches.

In fact, if negative attitudes determines the outcome of all 100 matches, you'd actually gain more Elo. If a negative attitude determined the outcome of all 100 matches, you'd gain roughly 150 Elo, having won 56 and lost 44 matches,




So you say I don't get it, and that negative attitude keeps people in Elo hell. I get it. But the only attitude that can keep YOU at a low Elo is your OWN attitude. Otherwise, that attitude is on the enemy team more often and causing the enemy team more losses than your team. And what that means is that even if you have identical skill level to your opponents, you'll gain in Elo.

The math is not wrong. Period. The only thing that can be wrong at this point is one of your logical assumptions.

Do not respond trying to explain to me that I just don't get it. At this point, you can either try to explain how my math is wrong (it's not) or come up with a better argument for why you're stuck in Elo hell since you, like everyone else in Elo hell, is not willing to admit that they're at that Elo because that's simply how good they are at the game.


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KingSnafu

Senior Member

10-31-2012

just had to post that PogoPogoPogoPogo long ass rant is just a very longwinded version of what i said except in place of consistent who used negative attitude


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