Why does mid have to be an ap caster?

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Rinric

Member

10-27-2012

Thanks, also the Mundo mid was mainly a troll, btw I found Riven actually counters Sivir, because you can pop her shield with broken wings, and Sivir relies too much on position to work well against Riven


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PogoPogoPogoPogo

Senior Member

10-27-2012

FrT Exa pretty much nails it.

I mean, you need to have an AP carry on your team, or the enemy can just build pure armor and be fine. You could get away with having something other than an AP carry mid if you got someone like Diana jungling. The reason you need an AP carry mid is for team comp more than anything else.


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Fiveofswords

Senior Member

10-27-2012

yeah its granted of course that your team needs some magic dmg somewhere...but top or jungle can easily be ap...I was assuming you had that already jsut becuase its elementary team comp idea, so anyway if you have that you can put someone else mid its not crazy, so long as they fulfil the other general requirements for a mid and/or coutner the opps mid
i really dont think a mundo mid in that case is all that trollish because he can sortof outsustain the opp mid and annoy them, i dont think bursty champs will enjoy laning vs mundo. Not sure if mundo would be the optimal guy to gank or countergank things top or bot (galio really is great for that with his ult and stuff). BUt anyway he should get pretty well farmed and leveled and i imagine that in teamfights he woudl end up being an uber front line able to tankt he whole team or something (dunno really havent played mundo ever...but he seems that way when i play against him when he gets farmed).
sortof makes me wonder how leona mid would go also...would need to have an interesting rune page and probably be zoned a bit until lvl 3..but i dunno worth considering. If she gets farmed shes a better tank than mundo


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Friesguy

Senior Member

10-27-2012

I could see Jayce being a stellar counter mid. And since he's so mana hungry, blue would still benefit him well.


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SummerDaze

Senior Member

10-27-2012

Most of the time they can clear well with skills allowing for roaming.

They scale the best with levels. There spells become stronger with leveling thus they like solo lane.

Access to blue. Most are mana dependant and the CDR doesnt hurt either.

You need some sort of AP dmg. You could run AP top but run the risk of less gankin, no blue, and susceptibility to ganks due to faster wave clear/tougher last hitting if youre not used to lower AD.


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Nesious

Senior Member

10-27-2012

FrT Exa explains it as well as anyone can, but to add on to it, mid should be some kind of caster in general, one that can be fed blue and gain a considerable advantage from it is nice. Pantheon and Talon are good examples of mid casters that aren't AP, why do we choose them? They are effective counter picks, and with the viability of something like Vladimir Top, or Diana Jungle, there are other places where AP's can be in the game. Talon is strong because he can counter and kill the enemy lane, shutting them down in lane and rendering them useless for the most part of the early to mid game, where they will have to farm and grab assists (maybe dying in the process), and still provide the AoE AND Single Target Burst to Carries that an AP Carry can bring. Pantheon is strong because he can use blue buff extremely effectively, and, like Talon, can counter and win mid lane from his very strong burst and Q poke. His ult is a big factor, along with his nice movement speed and his (small) stun and good early game burst damage to change other lanes and constantly provide pressure without letting his lane gain an advantage. Late game he can be a nuker on the enemy carries, or, more commonly, a strong tanky DPS to soak up the damage, where the Vladimir, Kennen, Gragas, Diana, or other AP's that should be in the top/jungle lanes, can do Tons of Damage™. A factor for these, and other counter picks mid (a very uncommon one is Riven, as you mentioned) is mobility. Mid and Jungle are the two roles that require the most mobility to be played to their fullest. Talon, Pantheon, and Riven all have lots of mobility to be an effective mid that can also impact the other lanes on the map. Talon and Pantheon are AD Casters, which put them in a unique position. They rely on Levels AND Items, by this nature, they both are champions that need to snowball, and do so VERY well, as you have most likely experienced, this is why they are both effective substitutes for the "standard" of AP Mages going mid.

I hope this clears up any questions you may have left.

See You On The Fields Of Justice, Summoner.
-Nesious


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SilverChampz

Member

10-27-2012

my main position is jungle.. and base on my experience.. AP champ usually dont have a good escape.. unlike adc like corki(valkyrie),trist(rocket jump),vayne(rolling thing),graves(dashing thing) but the range in bot lane is longer than mid.. that means even if the champ dont have good escape ability.. it still can escape because the range to the turret is short.. and AD vs AP in solo lane just meh.. at first yeah AD kinda win a bit.. but after reach around lvl 6.. the burst of AP just too much..


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FrT Exa

Recruiter

10-28-2012

I wouldn't pick a Pathenon mid, for the reason that his main force is to win at the trade damage early, because of his gap-closer, poke, and passive. If Pantheon faces an AP with burst, he will just get destroyed as he walks away, he won't take much use from his passiv and the trade damage will be at the enemy's advantage. But if Pantheon faces something like Karthus, it's another story. Talon is better, because his silence last enough time for him to walk away, his slow and ulit are helping too.

The reason why we don't see talon at a competitive level, is that top player can handle top or bot 1v2 with an AP caster (we saw it with Karthus during the SC2 championship), and if the enemy swap lanes, Talon is just useless, because the only thing he does good, is countering APs. But I think he is viable soloQ.


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Fiveofswords

Senior Member

10-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrT Exa View Post
I wouldn't pick a Pathenon mid, for the reason that his main force is to win at the trade damage early, because of his gap-closer, poke, and passive. If Pantheon faces an AP with burst, he will just get destroyed as he walks away, he won't take much use from his passiv and the trade damage will be at the enemy's advantage. But if Pantheon faces something like Karthus, it's another story. Talon is better, because his silence last enough time for him to walk away, his slow and ulit are helping too.

The reason why we don't see talon at a competitive level, is that top player can handle top or bot 1v2 with an AP caster (we saw it with Karthus during the SC2 championship), and if the enemy swap lanes, Talon is just useless, because the only thing he does good, is countering APs. But I think he is viable soloQ.
pantheon actually can be a brutal mid, and just kill the poor guy who is mid over and friggen over unless they know to build lots of armor. Talon is probably the same way. But anyway pantheon WILL kill you lvl 1-6 unless you get tons of armor.
no ap really has respectable burst at low lvl. one poitn in someting isnt goign to kill anybody


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FrT Exa

Recruiter

10-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiveofswords View Post
pantheon actually can be a brutal mid, and just kill the poor guy who is mid over and friggen over unless they know to build lots of armor. Talon is probably the same way. But anyway pantheon WILL kill you lvl 1-6 unless you get tons of armor.
no ap really has respectable burst at low lvl. one poitn in someting isnt goign to kill anybody
I totally agree with you on this, with Pantheon, you are more likely to kill your enemy before level 6, but if you don't, you are in bad shape. With Talon, you can kill your enemy whenever because his level 6 is still a great help 1v1 AND for ganks.


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