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Blackfire torch should not work with certain abilities.

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Boagster

Senior Member

10-27-2012

I think that ward spells, like Teemo's shroom and Shaco's boxes, shouldn't apply it if they do, but that's about it.


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Azkalas

Senior Member

10-27-2012

They need to add a cooldown on it. It's the same principle of Sheen/Trinity Force/Lichbane.


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Desocupado

Senior Member

10-27-2012

It's based on the current health, so it isn't THAT powerful, tough a timer like sheen would be nice.


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Eponet

Senior Member

10-27-2012

That extra 25 damage/second before magic resistance assuming that someone has 3000hp and is at full hp, with the damage being further reduced as they lose hp is completely broken.


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Hoizengerd

Senior Member

10-27-2012

Quote:
Eponet:
That extra 25 damage/second before magic resistance assuming that someone has 3000hp and is at full hp, with the damage being further reduced as they lose hp is completely broken.

the problem isn't the percentage damage, it's the fact that aoe & tick spells set it off, that's what makes it OP

add the ridiculous damage that most of those spells already do to a ticking damage that also reduces your healing and you can see how OP it is, it's a giant aoe heal debuff on champs like Amumu, Nasus, Teemo (shrooms), Singed poison

this was not the intended use for the item, it was to stop bruisers from building mass amounts of health + life steal and face-rolling squishy mages, but as you can see it actually helps the tanky champs a lot more than most squishy mages

Singed with this item on is a total nightmare


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Taarki

Recruiter

10-27-2012

its about as OP as madreds for carries... becuase madreds does 4% ON HIT and most carries get AS to 2.5x/s which equates to 10% of thier HP/second + damage while this item does 5% over 3 seconds which means its about 1.66666% hp/second only


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Eponet

Senior Member

10-27-2012

Quote:
Hoizengerd:
the problem isn't the percentage damage, it's the fact that aoe & tick spells set it off, that's what makes it OP

add the ridiculous damage that most of those spells already do to a ticking damage that also reduces your healing and you can see how OP it is, it's a giant aoe heal debuff on champs like Amumu, Nasus, Teemo (shrooms), Singed poison

this was not the intended use for the item, it was to stop bruisers from building mass amounts of health + life steal and face-rolling squishy mages, but as you can see it actually helps the tanky champs a lot more than most squishy mages

Singed with this item on is a total nightmare


You might be thinking of the wrong item, because it doesn't reduce healing. Unless it used to on the PBE and was changed to what it currently is now.

No, it isn't a problem that AoE spells set it off, especially in the case of Amumu. If you're having problems with the Blackfire Torch on Amumu, be glad he isn't building a Sunfire Cape, because unless you have over 4800 current HP, that not only does more damage, but also makes him significantly more tanky.

Its damage is already halved for AoE spells. Even when it's constantly reapplied, the numbers behind the item are low enough that it's not really all that good.

It breaks even with a 200ap deathfire active after around 15 seconds of constantly being reapplied (assuming single target spells, 30 seconds if AoE). If you've managed to keep them in your spell for thirty seconds, they're probably going to be dead anyway, and if not, you might as well just buy deathfire grasp. This is also of course ignoring the fact that deathfire grasp applies a single burst of damage, instead of doing increasingly less damage as the target's HP decreases (25% of current health at time of casting vs 1.66666666% of what their current health at each tick, and unless they have massive regeneration counteracting any damage taken, that value will be lower.)

TLDR: Blackfire Torch's numbers are low enough that even in the aforementioned cases, the item is bad. For tanky AoE, sunfire is better, for single target, deathfire is better.


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Ibeatursnipr

Junior Member

10-27-2012

I found that the torch on an AP teemo is rather unfair. 1 shroom took every champ on the team to half hp. 2 took us to 1/3 hp...He could take out an entire team without even being there to fight. It needs a nerf.


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Boagster

Senior Member

10-27-2012

Haha. I just did a bunch of math on another thread proving Blackfire Torch is not OP on Singed, but rather, in line with other item choices. But I completely forgot to take into account the half-damage from AoEs. It's actually a less viable item than say, Rylai's or Wooglet's, then.


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Hoizengerd

Senior Member

10-28-2012

you people keep saying the damage is halved but it sure doesn't seem so, wouldn't be the first time that an item works the wrong way

ok here's the issue

"If the debuff was initially the result of a single target spell, an AoE spell will refresh it but the debuff's effect will not be halved."

that's form the lol wiki, so it is a glitch of sorts, as for how it performs i think you're forgetting that this isn't the only item they would build, there's no point in saying x item would be better, cause you don't build just one item, it's this item on top of everything else!! Singed will build this and Rylais, & RoA, i mean, you're ****ed dude, the damage he does is big, and even more so with the glitch

and the items tick is refreshed with each tick from a DoT as well, so it does end up doing more damage in the end, unlike how someone said that it doesn't


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