Item idea: Ruby Slippers

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FearAzrael

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by foxfire100 View Post
Dem Mundo boots...

Just increasing health by a percent (and exactly what percent can be argued) I can understand. The general idea behind boots is "a little bit of one stat plus MS" - so instead of MrP, AS, or armor... the "one stat" would be health. That's cool.

But 6% more MS on a fully built Mundo? With initiator and MS support masteries you're talking about a Mundo with ~440-450 move speed.

I say drop the second passive and you're golden.
Everything is subject to change. And if you find me a game with a Mundo at 6000 health I will show you a game that is already lost, regardless of boots.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FearAzrael View Post
Like I said earlier this forum should only be for concept, numbers should be tweaked by Riot so I am not going to do that.
I will, however, speak to the conceptual place of the boots. Merc treads exist for the purpose of reduce magic damage, Ninja tabi for reducing physical damage, their bonus being that they respectively reduce CC and auto attack damage.
As many, unfortunately not all, people understand when you are against a split damage team, health is your best option at survive-ability. These boots would fill the void of tanks who are wanting to mitigate split damage as well as roam/initiate.

If you have negative feedback from a conceptual standpoint I would greatly like to hear it.
Alright, let's see if I can prove the concept wrong with words; failed at it before but I can give it a try.

The problem with health boots is twofold.
First, flat health is the basis of all defense stats. This means that increasing your health is the strongest way to increase your lifespan period. This is especially true for champions who have innate defense steroids, like Leona, Galio and Rammus. Armor and MR are actually easier to attain than HP because all they do is multiply your effective HP.
Second, there's a similar problem with this concept and Armor Pen boots. Every time a thread pops up for Armor Pen boots, the main, irrefutable argument against them is that they would be impossible to balance when you already have AS and CDR boots; either the ArPen boots are weaker than the other options save on a select few champions, or they're stronger than the other options, making one of them obsolete. I think the same is true of this concept; I proved on the first page that this item gives almost as much effective HP as Mercs and Tabi (ignoring Tabi's situational damage reduction effect), and to be honest I'd never buy Ninja Tabi again if these boots existed.


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Sirvas

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Junior Member

11-14-2012

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Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
...either the ArPen boots are weaker than the other options save on a select few champions, or they're stronger than the other options, making one of them obsolete. I think the same is true of this concept; I proved on the first page that this item gives almost as much effective HP as Mercs and Tabi (ignoring Tabi's situational damage reduction effect), and to be honest I'd never buy Ninja Tabi again if these boots existed.
If an item is weaker or stronger than another item as the values change, then it is implied there is a point of equilibrium. For something to be weaker or stronger its power needs to increase or decrease as the values change...and well...this implies a maximum on the relative power function so to speak.


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FearAzrael

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exdeadman View Post
Alright, let's see if I can prove the concept wrong with words; failed at it before but I can give it a try.

The problem with health boots is twofold.
First, flat health is the basis of all defense stats. This means that increasing your health is the strongest way to increase your lifespan period. This is especially true for champions who have innate defense steroids, like Leona, Galio and Rammus. Armor and MR are actually easier to attain than HP because all they do is multiply your effective HP.
Second, there's a similar problem with this concept and Armor Pen boots. Every time a thread pops up for Armor Pen boots, the main, irrefutable argument against them is that they would be impossible to balance when you already have AS and CDR boots; either the ArPen boots are weaker than the other options save on a select few champions, or they're stronger than the other options, making one of them obsolete. I think the same is true of this concept; I proved on the first page that this item gives almost as much effective HP as Mercs and Tabi (ignoring Tabi's situational damage reduction effect), and to be honest I'd never buy Ninja Tabi again if these boots existed.
I agree with almost everything you say, I just disagree on the outcome. For one, I am coming from the standpoint that a niche item which benefits a smaller pool of champions is not a bad thing, but rather provides depth to the game.
Also, if you are in a game that has an auto attacker top like Xin, an AD jungle like Hecarim, and a lower burst, higher cc mage like Morgana then I bet you are gonna get ninja tabi.
Actually, if you are top vs any AD who does not have true damage I bet you are gonna get ninja tabi just to win the lane.


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NA Rukhron

Senior Member

11-15-2012

I heavily suggest against the movement speed per health bonus. This is best moved into a mastery to avoid that all tanks have to commit to doing a certain item.

As per the Ruby Slippers (that was a cool name, btw)
I support it.
+5% is a very welcome number, really.
Because it ranges so near the contribution of both Ninja Tabi and Mercury Treads at their damage-type focused role it does not need to have anything else.

+1 for you, hope Riot give it a thought.


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FearAzrael

Senior Member

11-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NA Rukhron View Post
I heavily suggest against the movement speed per health bonus. This is best moved into a mastery to avoid that all tanks have to commit to doing a certain item.

As per the Ruby Slippers (that was a cool name, btw)
I support it.
+5% is a very welcome number, really.
Because it ranges so near the contribution of both Ninja Tabi and Mercury Treads at their damage-type focused role it does not need to have anything else.

+1 for you, hope Riot give it a thought.
Definitely the +movement speed could be taken out, that actually was not my idea but I thought it was cool so I included into OP.


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FearAzrael

Senior Member

11-23-2012

Just wondering, does Riot ever visit this forum? Because they sure do not post a lot. Kinda feels like we are just talking among ourselves with no real purpose.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

11-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FearAzrael View Post
Just wondering, does Rio ever visit this forum? Because they sure do not post a lot. Kinda feels like we are just talking among ourselves with no real purpose.
There's that, and there's the fact that Riot is literally on the verge of destroying anything we ever knew about item balance; In the preseason patches, absolutely everything in the item shop is going to change in some way. The game is going through violent rebirth on the PBE.


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JJ Unbreakable

Senior Member

11-23-2012

Q1: What kind of movement option are these boots?
Q2: Who would buy them and what do they gain/lose over other boots?

A1: They're not special boots.

A2: Tanks. People who want increased move speed and don't care about CC reduction.
They already have these boots. They're called boots of swiftness.

All you did was put a ****load of health on boots. They're Warmog's boots.
They already have hp items. HP and boots don't synergise.


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FearAzrael

Senior Member

12-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ Unbreakable View Post
Q1: What kind of movement option are these boots?
Q2: Who would buy them and what do they gain/lose over other boots?

A1: They're not special boots.

A2: Tanks. People who want increased move speed and don't care about CC reduction.
They already have these boots. They're called boots of swiftness.

All you did was put a ****load of health on boots. They're Warmog's boots.
They already have hp items. HP and boots don't synergise.
You bring up a couple very good points, but there are two things I find interesting here.
First, despite the number of times that I have stated the move speed was not even my idea and that it can just as easily be taken out as put in, it is what receives the most contention.
And secondly you assertion that HP and boots don't synergize seems to me to be an oddly final and unbacked statement of fact.
Perhaps it would be more appropriate to say that thus far we have not perfected the formula for incorporating health into boots.