Thoughts on Elise Dominion

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konfetarius

Senior Member

02-26-2013

Quote:
Saying Q and R scaling was increased by 50% is a bit deceptive. Q's Ap ratio went up from 2% to 3% per 100 AP, and R on hit went up by .1(from .2 to .3). The biggest change of note was the increase speed of Cocoon, which was not needed, and the added reveal, which kind of was need as it as awkward to use on a fleeing opponent and have to facecheck if it landed.
It's not deceptive. It's pointing out the magnitude of the buff. Her scaling was absolute **** before.

In conjunction with BFT, she went from mandatory bruiser build that needed 2+ rotations to kill anything to being able to actually 100-0 squishies at a rate resembling an actual AP caster.


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Nyx87

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Senior Member

02-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by konfetarius View Post
It's not deceptive. It's pointing out the magnitude of the buff. Her scaling was absolute **** before.

In conjunction with BFT, she went from mandatory bruiser build that needed 2+ rotations to kill anything to being able to actually 100-0 squishies at a rate resembling an actual AP caster.
Her scaling is still ****, the only thing that changed was the environment, e.g. % Penetration now applies before Flat Penetration, which occurred in December.


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konfetarius

Senior Member

02-26-2013

More accurately her scaling is now alright (well, I would argue fantastic given the nature of her kit, she is an assassin with a stun and high power poke for christ's sake). She is the product of an aggregate of changes such as her #'s and BFT. The penetration changes mainly improved her ability to kill low MR targets with a very specific build and a nerf to all other pen builds.


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Torkable

Senior Member

02-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyx87 View Post
Her scaling is still ****, the only thing that changed was the environment, e.g. % Penetration now applies before Flat Penetration, which occurred in December.
Konf dropped some math on you and now u mad.


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konfetarius

Senior Member

02-26-2013

Well, no, he is right that if you look at total burst rotation, if you don't factor in a wave of autos with her spiders (you realistically don't get to sit on a carry unless they really screw up), her scaling is pretty bad for an assassin.

Most AP assassins end up way overkilling the squishy with their full rotation. Elise needs her full combo to just barely reliably murder one. Elise simply has a ton of trade offs to make up for the fact that she is a mediocre assassin - full power of her kit without an ultimate cooldown, doesn't fall off against bruisers due to how spiderlings work and % damage, a freaking stun.


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Nyx87

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Senior Member

02-26-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by konfetarius View Post
Well, no, he is right that if you look at total burst rotation, if you don't factor in a wave of autos with her spiders (you realistically don't get to sit on a carry unless they really screw up), her scaling is pretty bad for an assassin.

Most AP assassins end up way overkilling the squishy with their full rotation. Elise needs her full combo to just barely reliably murder one. Elise simply has a ton of trade offs to make up for the fact that she is a mediocre assassin - full power of her kit without an ultimate cooldown, doesn't fall off against bruisers due to how spiderlings work and % damage, a freaking stun.
This is pretty much spot on. Her kit is incredibly strong against most targets for an assassin, where most others begin to drop off as targets get a lot of MR or HP or both.

Also, Konfetarius and I were pretty civil during our discussion. At no point did either of us attack one another, even though we disagreed on a few points. I was never mad, and I'm fairly sure he wasn't either.


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Warrrrax

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Senior Member

02-27-2013

Lets face it...most "assassins" don't just pile up tons of health and survivability like most Elise do. Its done this way because she has "auto-scaling" with her Qs and as stated her AP ratios arent really all that amazing, at least until endgame rolls along. (by then the extra % on Q from AP is quite welcome as is the extra spider and her onHit dmg from AP).

So honestly I would call her more of a bruiser than assassin. Her Q/W humanform combo does so nice damage but wont kill anyone. Going to spider and pouncing on them helps but with no slow or anything its very hard to get in many autoattacks... at least till you have some combo of Rylais, Sweeper,Mallet(yuck), alacrity/furor boots.


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MrVivo

Junior Member

02-27-2013

you build her magic pen and then stack AD