Wards

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Triton95

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Member

10-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Krake View Post
so I'm forced to take a summoner spell that doesn't work as well with my champion or at worst give me less options to escape/engage. Great.
Don't play ward dependent champs, and late game you should be grouped with your team for the most part. It is also called common sense. If you can't see them assume that the can see you and always be ready to team fight. Map awareness, calling mia, and counter ganks will go along way in this. If you are good at guessing where they are then you'll do well. In Skype my friends and I are always telling each other when altars are coming up, and where the enemies are. On this map you now must call mia right away. No mia's will = fed enemies and therefore a short landslide of a game.


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EarthruneSkarner

Senior Member

10-26-2012

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Originally Posted by Soup4 View Post
Maybe keeping the duration of 3 mins but increase the cost to 125 for normal wards and 175 for pink? Or perhaps 100 and 150.
I was thinking of removing pinks, and giving their role over to the Lantern and Sweeper items.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triton95 View Post
Don't play ward dependent champs, and late game you should be grouped with your team for the most part. It is also called common sense. If you can't see them assume that the can see you and always be ready to team fight. Map awareness, calling mia, and counter ganks will go along way in this. If you are good at guessing where they are then you'll do well. In Skype my friends and I are always telling each other when altars are coming up, and where the enemies are. On this map you now must call mia right away. No mia's will = fed enemies and therefore a short landslide of a game.
The issue is that "ward dependent champs" describes pretty much everyone who isn't a bruiser or extremely fast squishy, like Teemo or Kassadin. Even if they call mia, there's little you can do about it, as you can't run away in time.


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Akutalji

Junior Member

10-26-2012

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Originally Posted by Triton95 View Post
Don't play ward dependent champs, and late game you should be grouped with your team for the most part. It is also called common sense. If you can't see them assume that the can see you and always be ready to team fight. Map awareness, calling mia, and counter ganks will go along way in this. If you are good at guessing where they are then you'll do well. In Skype my friends and I are always telling each other when altars are coming up, and where the enemies are. On this map you now must call mia right away. No mia's will = fed enemies and therefore a short landslide of a game.
I was afraid to say it, but you did. Props. Thumbs up.

Still miss mah wards...


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Soup4

Senior Member

10-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triton95 View Post
Don't play ward dependent champs, and late game you should be grouped with your team for the most part. It is also called common sense. If you can't see them assume that the can see you and always be ready to team fight. Map awareness, calling mia, and counter ganks will go along way in this. If you are good at guessing where they are then you'll do well. In Skype my friends and I are always telling each other when altars are coming up, and where the enemies are. On this map you now must call mia right away. No mia's will = fed enemies and therefore a short landslide of a game.
Well what if the other team has a jungler? How do you stop him from coming out of the jungle and ganking you when your csing. Or do you just sit at the tower and not cs?

Not having wards can be detrimental at level 1, not just late game.

Lets say you are playing darius, I am jungling udyr and my teammate is laning against you as garen. At level 3 I pop out behind you and bear stance at you. You flash to get away, I flash to close the gap and stun you. Garen q's, e's and ignites and I tiger you down. Your now dead with no flash. Because you cannot buy wards, you now have to stay far away from creeps because if u get near them I will just do the same to you. Now your behind in cs, behind in levels and behind in kills mainly because you cannot buy wards.


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Lodestones

Junior Member

10-26-2012

I very much agree that wards would help to balance things more. Right now those that can facecheck a bush and get away with it (I'm looking at you Jayce, Olaf, Singed, Rengar etc.) are at an incredible advantage in the "jungle," or as I like to call it "mid lane of pain," which because of alters and the creepily overpowered ganking is by far the most important area of the map. I thought the whole point of the new map was to steer people away from a dominion style bruiser fest, after all isn't that why we have Dominion? For casters, a 10% MS buff on the new Deathcap doesn't really save you from being crushed in a perpetual fog of war as you're forced to fight over alters or lose a farming power up in the early to mid game. This is compounded by the fact that the vision items are rather mediocre! Their cast range and stats MUST be boosted, but even then they are a poor replacement for wards because they are A) so limited (1 close range cast per minute) B) you have to commit an item slot and C) ANOTHER active item (my fingers burn!)
This "mid-lane" also leads to some incredibly fast snowballing. I've played quite a few games already (sleep? what?) and in almost every singe one there was some epic snowballing. Im talking about 10-0 unkillable Singed in 15 minutes, a Teemo on my team with a 4 minute Nashor's Tooth, and teams being bullied unlike anything you see even on Dominion. And no chance for the losing team to turn things around once the ball starts rolling.
In conclusion, I agree that in theory removing wards is a cool IDEA. In practice, the ramifications of doing so lead down the road to Dominion, which I don't think many people want. Thanks for reading and please chime in!


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Joe Krake

Senior Member

10-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triton95 View Post
Don't play ward dependent champs, and late game you should be grouped with your team for the most part. It is also called common sense. If you can't see them assume that the can see you and always be ready to team fight. Map awareness, calling mia, and counter ganks will go along way in this. If you are good at guessing where they are then you'll do well. In Skype my friends and I are always telling each other when altars are coming up, and where the enemies are. On this map you now must call mia right away. No mia's will = fed enemies and therefore a short landslide of a game.

SO your solution is to just not go in the jungle? Perfect strategy while they get all the jungle for themselves and the alters while you sit back at the turret and pray they come out and fight you.

It's especially fun when the match is over 30 minutes and nobody is pushing the towers until they they have their full build. Which will be the team that has teemo/shaco and full map awareness.


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xKHORNExLORD420

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Senior Member

10-26-2012

no. they will simply be abused by kat/jax/lee etc. want wards? play heimer.


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Demonic Instinct

Senior Member

10-26-2012

Personally, with the size of the map I can see why wards aren't available, because if they were you would constantly have vision and ganking would be near impossible.

On the other hand, I can also see how there is a problem. You can't lane without ward unless you freeze the lane close to a tower and have an escape, and you can't exactly travel all game as a 3 man group. Teemo is borderline OP with his vision on this map in my opinion, and people are going to start playing him for that reason. People shouldn't "have" to pick a certain champion or risk not having that vital map coverage which could put them at a serious advantage.

Should they put wards back in? No. Should they do something about the lack of vision? Yes. All in all I think it's a complicated problem. Sure CV and the reveal items are useful, but they are situational and do not solve the problem. Right now there are just too many champions that are almost useless because of how the new TT works and others that are straight up OP, imho (Teemo, Rengar, Khazix, any champion with a strong early game that lets them snowball from early team fights which are forced due to the altars.)


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EarthruneSkarner

Senior Member

10-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demonic Instinct View Post
Personally, with the size of the map I can see why wards aren't available, because if they were you would constantly have vision and ganking would be near impossible.

On the other hand, I can also see how there is a problem. You can't lane without ward unless you freeze the lane close to a tower and have an escape, and you can't exactly travel all game as a 3 man group. Teemo is borderline OP with his vision on this map in my opinion, and people are going to start playing him for that reason. People shouldn't "have" to pick a certain champion or risk not having that vital map coverage which could put them at a serious advantage.

Should they put wards back in? No. Should they do something about the lack of vision? Yes. All in all I think it's a complicated problem. Sure CV and the reveal items are useful, but they are situational and do not solve the problem. Right now there are just too many champions that are almost useless because of how the new TT works and others that are straight up OP, imho (Teemo, Rengar, Khazix, any champion with a strong early game that lets them snowball from early team fights which are forced due to the altars.)
Sorry to link, but here's a much more conductive place to discuss warding on the Shadow Isles: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2724344


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Shigebon

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Junior Member

10-26-2012

just change the 250g elixir into a pink ward! The problem isn't getting ganked.. with good communication and experience you should be able to know when u are going to get ganked (Riot want it to be a fast paced game after all) + you have your own jungler who were suppose to keep watch and help you.. The problem is teemo mushroom is broken!