1000+ on old TT vs new TT

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TopFat

Junior Member

10-25-2012

TT is/has been my sole purpose of staying with League for so long and I don't usually post on forums (I read a lot though), so I wanted to share whether I get heard or not.

I've played so many games on TT, inscribing all the tricks/moves specific to the map into my head. About 8 games into this new TT, I can definitely say about 20-30% of the older version remains. The new mode is less organized, revolves around fighting more so than usual, and eliminates parts of the game that old TT had (that I liked).



Pros:
- New map layout, audio, monsters, items and overall spooky atmosphere is great and puts me in a festive mood that matches the map itself.

- Less places to blink over, limiting the op'ness of champs that are already great on TT (Leblanc, Gragas, Renekton, Tryndamere, Shen)

- The jungling is a lot more reliable in terms of keeping a steady route, making ganking both lanes more effective (still have to get used to the ganking routes though).

- The items in general. I like customizing and finding new ways to build champs.

- The base's layout. Now people can't snowball for a long time and all the wall champs (Blitz, Lee, J4, Shaco, Ez, Gragas, Leblanc) can't consistently hound the base.

Neutral:
- Vilemaw
Cool new creature, bad location and movement (easy to steal). Nice buff and importance mid game, though I liked dragon because of it's ability to force fights throughout the match. It felt like a mini baron as everyone wanted it. Vilemaw doesn't feel as important because the team that gets it will probably be dominating by then or the other team won't know they're taking it.

- Altars.
Resembles dominion, but doesn't really feel like it. Like that they help instigate fights. Dislike how much fighting it makes and how it distracts from ganking and laning.

- Speed shrine
Like how it adds another layer to the game. Dislike how it speeds up all the cons.

Cons:
- No wards.
This has been my biggest concern because it makes the game feel less organized/"official". It's so easy to gank, which made a few champs nonviable because of no escape methods thus limiting laning phase to around 1/3 of what it was before. This forces a few things to happen: less laning, more skirmishes, everybody jungling. I have seen a significant decrease in back pings and mia's

- Snowballing effect.
I've noticed that fights have become 10x more important, especially early. If one team loses a few fights early, it's near impossible to come back if the opponent plays consistently. This has created much usage of early game champs, limiting the champ pool viable for TT.

- Constant fighting.
Example - On Old TT, top lane would have the job of outlaning the opponent, controlling jungle (buffs and warding), and helping to gank bot lane. It was very strategic because many things could happen like if I lost lane, I could out-cs my opponent through jungle or gank bot lane.
On New TT, I felt like everyone was responsible for jungle, altars, and fighting/ganking. Now if I lose my lane, nothing really happens because there really wasn't a lane to begin with. A typical game for me (top lane) is to teamfight lvl 1, get altars, and go to lane. I'll win if lvl 1 fight went our way or I'm excessively op early like Yorick vs someone like WW. After that, everyone takes jungle and keeps trying to fight (usually around altars)

- How fast games end.
This kind of ties into all the other reasons. I haven't seen real mid-game at all. One team usually dominates by early game and they will reach mid-game before the opposing team. It's hard for the other team to get items because the main source of gold is from fighting as laning will be impossible (ganks/no wards). Fighting under turret becomes hopeless as one team snowballs the other by the time it comes to inhibitor turret.


Suggestions:
Bring back wards, this will bring back the more strategic part of the game back like knowing when the team is taking Vilemaw, when to not overextend, and where the enemy is jungling.

That's about all I can think of

Wards will increase the champ pool, make games more organized, make fighting more strategic, decrease the snowball effect, make Lee, Jax, and Kat happy, and end world hunger.


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Orenin

Senior Member

10-26-2012

- Constant fighting.
Example - On Old TT, top lane would have the job of outlaning the opponent, controlling jungle (buffs and warding), and helping to gank bot lane. It was very strategic because many things could happen like if I lost lane, I could out-cs my opponent through jungle or gank bot lane.
On New TT, I felt like everyone was responsible for jungle, altars, and fighting/ganking. Now if I lose my lane, nothing really happens because there really wasn't a lane to begin with. A typical game for me (top lane) is to teamfight lvl 1, get altars, and go to lane. I'll win if lvl 1 fight went our way or I'm excessively op early like Yorick vs someone like WW. After that, everyone takes jungle and keeps trying to fight (usually around altars)


This. Theres no strategy, just constant fighting. Im sure it appeals to younger players, and people that suck at farming/laning/map awareness/jungle control. but people like this already have a map. DOMINION. Old TT map was MUCH better.

Teamfighting is not the funnest part of LoL. Setting up kills, ganking, denying farm, and controlling the jungle are more fun. Teamfighting is fun too, but teamfighting exclusively is not fun at all. That's why summoner's rift is more popular than dominion.

Now, the dominion crowd has 2 maps to enjoy, but the TT crowd has no map.


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DarkEmpereor

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Junior Member

10-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopFat View Post
Suggestions:
Bring back wards, this will bring back the more strategic part of the game back like knowing when the team is taking Vilemaw, when to not overextend, and where the enemy is jungling.

That's about all I can think of
What about the suggestion: make it a friggin SEPARATE map???


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TopFat

Junior Member

10-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkEmpereor View Post
What about the suggestion: make it a friggin SEPARATE map???
I'm not giving up on this map yet, I still want to give it some more runs to get an overall perspective of the game play.

What I would like most is to rework the map to make it feel more like old TT since I love the idea of a new map + old TT style play.


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OnlyBotLane

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Senior Member

10-26-2012

I like your attitude and agree with you almost everywhere (I don't think they can bring back wards due to map size though, at least not in their previous state). There needs to be more constructive posts like this rather than just complaining. Bump


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Combine29

Junior Member

10-26-2012

to be honest i think they should bring back the Original TT and make this beta TT a new map.


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Naxc

Senior Member

10-26-2012

I strongly feel after a few game that the strategy is completely missing from the game.

Altars: If you try to lane, opponents will take the midbuffs, it is very hard to prevent them from "locking it". Also the delay for locking is very fast and if you try to do it, you can be seen. The first team fight is always in the jungle, if you have a weaker early game team, they will take both spots and start with a 160g advantage + g/kill.

An other problem that I have right now is that mid buffs are as important as Vilemaw, giving the players 3 objectives for take over, this prevents strongly from laning and makes the game very hectic.

Suggestion number 1: Do not have the altars unlock for the first 5 minute of the game, then squishy characters or character that rely on their skill instead of a single button that AoE will be able to get at least 1 rank in all 3 of their skill.

Suggestion number 2: Put the speed buffs on the sides where the altar are and instead put a single altar in the middle, I feel that fighting all the time for 2 objective is really annoying. At least if there is only one people can strategize. Also, make the timer on the altar longer, a but like the red respawn time from old TT.

Suggestion number 3: Make the altar buff only the player that takes it over, this way teams will snowball less. This gives more importance to Vilemaw which should be the team buff.

Jungle: I would like to add to this that i would strongly like to have wards in this map, while I would not mind not having vision of the altar (when somebody is on it), I could ward it, this would be strategic and protecting the ward require some working/thinking.

Also, please remove the bush that are just above the towers, this is the most annoying thing, as ranged characters can hide in the bush while still protected by the tower. This prevents me from being agressive, this also prevents me from fighting at their tower without the worry of someone popping out of nowhere AT the tower.


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UtvaraHellkite

Senior Member

10-26-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orenin View Post
- Constant fighting.
Example - On Old TT, top lane would have the job of outlaning the opponent, controlling jungle (buffs and warding), and helping to gank bot lane. It was very strategic because many things could happen like if I lost lane, I could out-cs my opponent through jungle or gank bot lane.
On New TT, I felt like everyone was responsible for jungle, altars, and fighting/ganking. Now if I lose my lane, nothing really happens because there really wasn't a lane to begin with. A typical game for me (top lane) is to teamfight lvl 1, get altars, and go to lane. I'll win if lvl 1 fight went our way or I'm excessively op early like Yorick vs someone like WW. After that, everyone takes jungle and keeps trying to fight (usually around altars)


This. Theres no strategy, just constant fighting. Im sure it appeals to younger players, and people that suck at farming/laning/map awareness/jungle control. but people like this already have a map. DOMINION. Old TT map was MUCH better.

Teamfighting is not the funnest part of LoL. Setting up kills, ganking, denying farm, and controlling the jungle are more fun. Teamfighting is fun too, but teamfighting exclusively is not fun at all. That's why summoner's rift is more popular than dominion.

Now, the dominion crowd has 2 maps to enjoy, but the TT crowd has no map.
I disagree with "the always fighting" statement. You can win by farming and there's a lot of gold on the map.

You fight for altars ( which greatly increase your gold income) and the vilemaw (Not enough objectives imo) and between those you farm the lanes and the jungle.

Last game I played was asked to go AP so I decided to go Vlad. Both my teammates were "crazy" and decided to fight non stop letting me farm both lanes and jungles. I had 230 cs at 22 mn, meanwhile the enemy Talon was 6/0 with 39 cs. Needless to say I wrecked team fights.

You can really play TT the way you want.


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onechange

Senior Member

10-26-2012

I think a lot of the things people complain about are irrelevant until a meta actually solidifies. Most people have no clue which objectives take priority, which is the reason for the phenomenon of a lot of fighting. Thats all people know how to do.

People are playing this map like its dominion -- except it is nothing like dominion. In dominion you actually have to defend points, in this, trying to defend a point is like throwing your life away. Points in this game define when to be agressive and when to be passive and farm. Do you have both altars on lockdown? Go ahead and gank because you have 10% ap/ad on top of the enemy, you have jungle control, steal some of their jungle. Have they capped both altars? You should stay safe and watch your minimap for mias, because they ganking.