Ranked elo, first ten games.

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BeatHobbes

Junior Member

10-24-2012

The fact that the first ten ranked games are worth more elo, than all your other ranked games is bull****.

I mean I am even in games, and my elo is 1100. It should be 1200, as that seems to be the standard straight split number.

So in season 3, can you guys not have the first ten games count for more then the average game elo? Which is around 15.


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RiotKiddington

Platform Engineer

10-25-2012
1 of 2 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatHobbes View Post
The fact that the first ten ranked games are worth more elo, than all your other ranked games is bull****.
How did you reach this conclusion? Where did you get the data to back this statement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatHobbes View Post
I mean I am even in games, and my elo is 1100. It should be 1200, as that seems to be the standard straight split number.
Why it should be 1200? why not 1201? are you just speculating?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatHobbes View Post
So in season 3, can you guys not have the first ten games count for more then the average game elo? Which is around 15.
average game elo is 15? I have my doubts how you reached this conclusion.


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BeatHobbes

Junior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotKiddington View Post
How did you reach this conclusion? Where did you get the data to back this statement?
I am an ignorant peon that partakes in the playing of League of Legends. I obviously have no clue how the elo system works. Almost everyone I know has had the experience of their first ten games to be worth more elo then the rest. It could be just some coincidence. Either way, that is my data. The shared experienced between friends, as that is all I really have to go by.

When I started playing ranked I was getting or losing around 40 elo a game. Now its 5-25 elo a game. I know that elo varies depending on the average elo of the two teams. So I mean did the match making for ranked games improve a few months back, cause that would explain it. Or is it simply the way the match making logic handles new ranked players? Can you address my concern there, RiotKiddington, and not just insult me in so many words.


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RedPlanet

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Senior Member

10-25-2012

I feel like there is something to be gained in discussing this topic, if only because seasons have thus far been so terribly long.

The soft resets are supposed to give the system a helping hand in reacting to player improvement over time, but they don't happen often enough.

Looking back at my season 2 stats I had thousands of games played. I had positive winrates on characters I don't even remember how to play. I have negative winrates on characters where my recent winrate is more like 80%.

In comparison to that, the first couple of games were a drop in the bucket, not remotely relevant to the player I am at the moment.

There were times where I went weeks without playing, or hit times where I bugsplat constantly. After these spans I had to slowly work my way back up again. And in these times I felt like my current elo was far too sticky.

I hope in season 3 there is more room for long-term flexibility. The system ought to recognize a swing where you are playing consistently above/below your level and compensate in your potential elo rewards. Restricting that to an arbitrary point at the beginning of the season is unreasonable (and leads to smurfing besides.)

If seasons were shorter, it would be a different story, but things are how they are.


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RiotKiddington

Platform Engineer

10-25-2012
2 of 2 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatHobbes View Post
I am an ignorant peon that partakes in the playing of League of Legends. I obviously have no clue how the elo system works. Almost everyone I know has had the experience of their first ten games to be worth more elo then the rest. It could be just some coincidence. Either way, that is my data. The shared experienced between friends, as that is all I really have to go by.

When I started playing ranked I was getting or losing around 40 elo a game. Now its 5-25 elo a game. I know that elo varies depending on the average elo of the two teams. So I mean did the match making for ranked games improve a few months back, cause that would explain it. Or is it simply the way the match making logic handles new ranked players? Can you address my concern there, RiotKiddington, and not just insult me in so many words.
I am not trying to insult you. I am confused what problem you are trying to solve based on your original post. To really dig into what you are saying, one have to answer the key question “What is wrong with first 10 games worth more elo?” I am not saying first 10 games are indeed worth more Elo, but let’s assume that’s the case, and let’s discuss the implications of it. Throwing random numbers in your argument really will not help you to make your case.


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Therius Hart

Junior Member

10-25-2012

Just to help clear things up for people, in many games or sports that do use an Elo ranking system, the first games/matches are 'provisional', and are worth more Elo in an attempt for a new player to quickly find his actual Elo. In LoL the first 10 matches you do are provisional. From memory the provisional matches are worth around ~30 or so, but it's been a while since I've done mine so I don't really remember.

As for the start of Season 3, BeatHobbes, I believe all players will have to do provisional matches again...so you might be out of luck there. At least there is also a 'soft' reset that will bring everyone back closer to the average.

As for why BeatHobbes might have said 1200, that is the Elo a new player starts at for LoL before there provisional matches.

This might help as well;
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Elo_rating_system


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FAKEGirlIRL

Member

10-25-2012

I keep playing teemo ad mid and get trolled by mah enemiez halp! I lost 70 games! Whats wrong with everyone


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Kevy21

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Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotKiddington View Post
I am not trying to insult you. I am confused what problem you are trying to solve based on your original post. To really dig into what you are saying, one have to answer the key question ďWhat is wrong with first 10 games worth more elo?Ē I am not saying first 10 games are indeed worth more Elo, but letís assume thatís the case, and letís discuss the implications of it. Throwing random numbers in your argument really will not help you to make your case.
Both your above posts are absolutely useless in my opinion, you have just completely alienated a player trying to ask questions who seems to be confused about the system.

How about instead of riding on your high horse you instead try to offer the player some info 'actual' info instead of being as indecisive as possible - I'm actually really peeved you posted just as bad in your second post as you did in your first after that player felt you insulted them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Therius Hart View Post
Bravo, nice post and good info.


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Siing

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Senior Member

10-25-2012

Are you kidding RiotKiddington? Because I seriously think you're kidding.

The OP's post isn't exactly hard to decipher, it should be extremely obvious what he meant to anyone at all that has played ranked. I'm literally dumbfounded by your response @_@.

@OP:
Provisional matches aren't exactly an uncommon feature in ranked based matchmaking. It's there to help get people to their respective elo's quicker, and it's there to stay. I'm sure if you had won more of your initial matches than you had lost, you would not be complaining right now. Besides, there are multiple factors that can determine the spread of elo, as I'm sure you already understand by reading your second post. Just because you are 50/50 with your win/loss record, doesn't mean you will be back at the very start at 1200 again. Even without the provisional matches granting more elo than usual, you could still be 1100 elo despite being even. Not every match gives an exact gain/loss, as you already know, so how can you expect to be neutral despite having an even win/loss record? Still confused? Well how about this then...

"Now its 5-25 elo a game. I know that elo varies depending on the average elo of the two teams."
Read that again. You wrote it. Even without the provisional '10' matches, your elo could be vastly different to the 1200 'neutral' state. Random matchmaking gives a variance of elo gain/loss, not a static amount. I'm confused as to how you seem to have failed to realize this, and blamed your elo on the first 10 matches. If you want to get higher, win more. If you want to win more, get better. With time, your elo will rise. It's as simple as that.


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MCXL

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Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatHobbes View Post
I am an ignorant peon that partakes in the playing of League of Legends. I obviously have no clue how the elo system works. Almost everyone I know has had the experience of their first ten games to be worth more elo then the rest. It could be just some coincidence. Either way, that is my data. The shared experienced between friends, as that is all I really have to go by.

When I started playing ranked I was getting or losing around 40 elo a game. Now its 5-25 elo a game. I know that elo varies depending on the average elo of the two teams. So I mean did the match making for ranked games improve a few months back, cause that would explain it. Or is it simply the way the match making logic handles new ranked players? Can you address my concern there, RiotKiddington, and not just insult me in so many words.

Its about the confidence of the system of your ranking. If you are playing for the first time, you are an unknown. So if you beat the 1200's it goes, "well lets get him out of there." and bumps you up 40, then you lose and it goes, "oh maybe I shouldn't have bumped him up so much!" and drops you by 35.

This process continues until the matchmaker feels more confident in your rating (set to the first 10 or so games, unless you are hardcore streaking) to put you where you belong quickly.


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