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@Riot Feedback on Kha'Zix. Changes he needs.

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Darklarik

Senior Member

10-23-2012

Please bump this thread, thanks
Hello, i would like to offer Riot some feed Back on Kha'Zix the voidreaver. Ive been playing Kha'Zix since he was on PBE, and i bought him and his bundle on realease. Ive tried him in every lane, top, jungle, Support, and even mid (not adc for obvious reasons). I would like to share some of my thoughts, and some feedback to help him improve.

Intro: Ill begin with saying that Kha'zix is an excellent assassin Kit wise, however, due to some small things in his Kit, i think he is currently being dragged more onto the underpowered side of the spectrum of balance (im not saying he is UP however). These small quirks in his kit are easily fixable i belive, and ill be going over some of the buffs/chages he could/should resieve to make him more viable and versatile at his Role of a sneaky mobile assassin.
I will mainly be talking about his Kit and why i think it needs some changes. Since Basestats wise, i think he is fine as an assassin.

*Wall of text begins now*

Passive: Unseen Threat
Currently, i think the idea behind his passive it preety neat. Extra damage, re-procable if used in combination with bush jukes and a decent slow. Couple of issues however.
Issues
Firstly his passive scales down in damage late game hard, to the point of being almost useless. Where talking 220 damage at lv 18, which would be a decent amount, if Magic Resist did not exist. most champions are packing anywhere from 70-100 mag resis late game meaning this damage is going to be cut short by a lot. I belive the simplest solution to this problem is its scaling, no one in the right mind gets much AP for Kha'Zix, and even less with the fact the scaling is only .5, i belive the scaling should be changed to .5 per bonus AD, to help him scale better into the late game.

Secondly, as Kha'Zix's only CC, if believe the slow should get some scaling as well (Unless, they change his ultimate, as i will get to later on). Either this, or its duration should be tweaked to be a slight bit longer at later levels.

Q: Taste there fear
This ability is really strong (The evolution isnt overpowering, infact i think its fine the way it is), infact, i will say too strong for its CD and mana cost. Its understandable, given that the rest of his Kit at the moment isnt very good in providing him with more damage, so he becomes overdependant on his Q to dish out the main source of Damage. I belive this Ability needs to be toned down a bit while strengthening the rest of his abilities, so hes not just a champion who needs to QQ people to death (we have Rengar for that).

Changes: i see 3 possible Changes to tone this ability down.
1. Higher Mana cost at early levels. 25 mana at all levels is seriously a bit of a joke, hes got an ability that can potentially deal 100 (+ 240% bonus AD) at lv 1 is VERY strong.
2. Higher CD. Aside from the mana cost, which wouldent be much of a problem if he wouldent be able to spam this so often, 3.5 is a bit to short for something like this, at least at lv 1. A scaling cd, like 5.5 /5 /4.5 /4 /3.5. I belive this is most optimal since a lot of Kha'Zix love to get CD reduction (cd boots and Ghostblade are common items), which makes this ability even more spamable.
3. Increase Isolation range. If the target aint isolated, this abilty wont be dealing as much damage as it would (especially when its evolved).

W: Void Spike
Whoever thought about putting a range skillshot on an assassin is a genius, props to him. However, this ability suffers from what his Q dosent, mana costs and CD. For Jungle Kha'Zix, this is the big letdown. Most Great Jungler have some sort of aoe damage (Noc has Passive, Nati has W, Mundo W, Hecarim Q, Shyvana has W ecs) which allows them to clear camps quickly, This is a great Aoe but with its current CD, mana cost, and abismal heal, its just cut short.
In the lane, i believe this ability could use a slight damage adjustment increse, given its a very thin skillshot and minion waves can block it (plus its speed isnt particularly fast).

Potential Changes:
1. Lower mana cost, scaling mana cost adjustments. I belive this is very important, Kha starts out with only 300 mana, each shot is gonna cut out around 20% of his mana, Unless he goes Blue first (and even with it), early game this is killing him.
2. Scaling CD. i think a scaling where it starts at 7 seconds and ends at 5 seconds, will allow for this ability to be more realiable.
3. Bigger heal at early levels. This is the most important aspect, especially for Jungle Kha'Zix to become viable.

E: Leap
I belive this ability is almost perfect how it is. I would not change it at all except maybe make the leap faster, and make Kha'Zix Untargetable while he leaps. It could also benefit from a slight CD adjustment, but overall i wouldent touch on this one too much.

R: Void Assault.
This is Kha'Zix biggest problem, his 'ultimate'. The idea behind this i guess was to allow him to dart around teamfights, and maybe evolved to allow him to dive Turrets with less risk. Smart, but the way it was integrated stinks.

Problems
Firstly, this ult is so bad that if i did not have to upgrade it to evolve, i literally wouldn't get it. Most champions with an ammo based ult on a 10 second window (Like Xerath or Ahri), have a lot more juice behind them that makes it feel like an Ult. Lets analise its purpose, im gonna be comparing it to 2 other assassins here: Akali and Ahri.

The idea as an assassin for this ult, is to close the distance, and deal some additional damage, and be able to stick better to your target. At this, his ult is preety good, a decent mov speed boost to catchup, a slow to stick, and his passive proc for more damage. Issues with his current state however:
1. the mov speed: It only last 1 second. With all the mov speed now a days (since mov speed runes are VERY popular) and with ADCs getting mov speed increases like PD the distance closing ability of this ult is pathetic, even more so with the amount of CC now a days. If we look at a champion like Akali, her ult is a dash made for single targets, so it dosent suffer from being ccd, she can deal a moderate amount of damage with it on arrival (nothing exajerated unless you foolishly fed her), and stick to her target. A perfect ultimate for an assassin, however it also has other uses, i think every great akali player know what juking potential this ult provides making much more than a way to stick to your target.

2. The window of time: This is the big issue, you have to burn all 3 charges in this 10 second window you really want the most juice out of it, especially with HUGE cd it has. Lets look at Xerath and Ahri ults. Both offer a lot more bang for the buck. Xerath is an AOE, meaning he can potentially hit multiple targets for reasonable amount of damage for each charge, plus its great range allows him to bombard targets within that 10 second window, at this his ult is good (needs smaller blast delay though). Ahri is the best when comparing it to Kha'Zix, since they share almost identical purposes: Ahri can dash to her target/S, meaning that unlikely Kha'Zix she wont be affected by CC for the distance closing part (like akali), and she can deal small damage to up to 3 targets! given that she must use it on all 10 second window shes getting a lot from this ult, a way to stick and deal damage to many enemies (giving her team fighting potential), and like Kha'Zix it can also be used to gtfo of a bad situation.

Currently, Kha'Zix might waste his entire ult just to catch up to his target once, meaning he might waste 1 or even 2 charges to just proc his passive once on his intended target, and boom hes wasted his 100 second 'ultimate'.
------------
Changes:
Here is how i would re-vamp his ult to fit his kit and let him do his JOB, you know, of assassinating. I would make it an AMMO SYSTEM

Void Assault: mana cost 40 per charge []
Kha'zix gets an Assault Charge every 30/22.5/15 second MAX 3 CHARGES. affected by CDR.
Passive: Upon upgrading, Kha'Zix can evolve one his abilties to give it additional effects.
Active: Kha'Zix stealths for 1 second, gaining 40/50/60% mov speed for the duration and re-activating his Passive.
Evole: Evolving Active Camoflauge will make Kha'Zix remove all slows currently affecting him upon activation. While stealthed, Kha'Zix gain 40% damage reduction (Or, alternatively, Avoid unit collision)
-----------
AND BAM, now you have a real ultimate. This would allow Kha'Zix to be able to trully navigate Teamfight more often, since he would administrate his Charges when he sees fit (since fights can last much more than 10 seconds), and stick to his target much better if he chooses to evolve it or if his enemy team is heavily CC oriented. Additionally, being able to use it more often would allow his passive and slows to be much much more reliable part of his Kit, so he wont rely completely on his QQQQ to get kills. It would also provide him with great utitlity to use it to Juke and confuse enemies as to where he is on the battlefield. While Evolving it would still allow him to turret dive, its now much more usefull since he dosent need to feel that if he gets CC once he is wasting most of his ultimate.

*Wall of Text ENDS here*

TL : DR version: AD scale on passive. Nerf Q. slight mana/cd buff on W. Re-Vamp ult into an Ammo system.

My favorite Lane
I do belive his greatest place right now is infact in Mid Lane. Your probably think wtf? Hes kinda like an Talon on roids in mid lane, plus many mages wont expect it. He dosent excel against all mages, LB can mitigate a lot of his damage with her Dash. But currently (if you have Mov runes) against slow mages who have no dashes or are very skillshot dependant, he can quickly juke evade them, then jump on them and really teach them the meaning of pain.
Top lane just has stronger picks that can tear him apart. Rengar, Jayce, Jax, Poppy, Malphite, Cho'Gath can really give him a hard time. And unless they do something about his W his jungle isnt the best either.

Item wise i love to get CD reduction. Maybe CD boots and Ghostblade, along with a Aegis for some stats to not be squishy and provide some utility for my team (horay for teamwork).
Runes i belive the only important thing is MOv speed Quints.

And thats really it. i could get into detail on his laning but i dont feel its necesarry, ive stated what i think needs to change for him to be stronger more usefull, since any competent player can easily defeat him right now.

Hope Riot take the time to see and coment on this

Quote:
caledfwch598:
I agree on most of your points but if i could change one thing make the evolution of his ult give him ignored unit collision while its active..

I understand this would be very usefull, but it would make upgrading his ult just WAY too good. Cant have 40% reduced, CC removal, and No unit collision all in one package. And i personally thing the CC removal is way more important. So if this were implemented i think the 40% DR would have to go.


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Least Pro Lee NA

Senior Member

10-23-2012

I agree on most of your points but if i could change one thing make the evolution of his ult give him ignored unit collision while its active. This would help him navigate team fights, gank in lane and escape. I also feel that the idea behind his ultimate was that he should be able to disappear and reappear at will and right now you cant really do that seeing as you get stuck knee deep in minions or body blocked by other champs half the time.


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Estred Shantile

Senior Member

10-23-2012

Interesting points. I do feel ignoring collision would be a great thing for his ulti, personally I have been building Manamune and Maw of Malmortus early to provide the anti and sustain in midlane as Maw not only give you magic and bonus damage if they hit you it also shields you from the harshest part of a mages burst; MM is a bit obvious as to why I get it from there get your infinity edge/BT/YGB or whatever you like.


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InfestorMordecai

Recruiter

10-23-2012

His Q seems fine for an AD caster

but your update to his ultimate is much needed. Between uses there is a cooldown and if you have 3 charges on it, you HAVE to spam R to make sure you get all three charges off, and if youre silenced by any high level silence youre almost garunteed to lose a charge by the time 10 seconds is up

Id like to see the ult lengthened by 5 seconds upon Evolving his Ult

It would let him evade more and give him more flexibility in using it in a team fight, since it would take 5 seconds to engage/disengage a team fight with it.

If not the time boost and the CC cleanse/unit collision, Id really like the charges to be loaded like Heimers turrets. That way you could at least always have 1 charge for escapes or engage/disengage more frequently since you dont have to wait 100 secs. You could come in for a gank, force the summoners and come back 30 seconds later with 1 more charge.

The Ult should also change the tooltip, maybe he could phase back into the Void, which would give him a CC cleanse, zero unit collision and the speed boost before upgrading it to the damage mitigation


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Zaenos

Senior Member

10-23-2012

Quote:
InfestorMordecai:
His Q seems fine for an AD caster

but your update to his ultimate is much needed. Between uses there is a cooldown and if you have 3 charges on it, you HAVE to spam R to make sure you get all three charges off, and if youre silenced by any high level silence youre almost garunteed to lose a charge by the time 10 seconds is up

Id like to see the ult lengthened by 5 seconds upon Evolving his Ult

It would let him evade more and give him more flexibility in using it in a team fight, since it would take 5 seconds to engage/disengage a team fight with it.

If not the time boost and the CC cleanse/unit collision, Id really like the charges to be loaded like Heimers turrets. That way you could at least always have 1 charge for escapes or engage/disengage more frequently since you dont have to wait 100 secs. You could come in for a gank, force the summoners and come back 30 seconds later with 1 more charge.

The Ult should also change the tooltip, maybe he could phase back into the Void, which would give him a CC cleanse, zero unit collision and the speed boost before upgrading it to the damage mitigation

I second this motion.


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Darklarik

Senior Member

10-23-2012

Quote:
InfestorMordecai:
His Q seems fine for an AD caster

but your update to his ultimate is much needed. Between uses there is a cooldown and if you have 3 charges on it, you HAVE to spam R to make sure you get all three charges off, and if youre silenced by any high level silence youre almost garunteed to lose a charge by the time 10 seconds is up

Id like to see the ult lengthened by 5 seconds upon Evolving his Ult

It would let him evade more and give him more flexibility in using it in a team fight, since it would take 5 seconds to engage/disengage a team fight with it.

If not the time boost and the CC cleanse/unit collision, Id really like the charges to be loaded like Heimers turrets. That way you could at least always have 1 charge for escapes or engage/disengage more frequently since you dont have to wait 100 secs. You could come in for a gank, force the summoners and come back 30 seconds later with 1 more charge.

The Ult should also change the tooltip, maybe he could phase back into the Void, which would give him a CC cleanse, zero unit collision and the speed boost before upgrading it to the damage mitigation

Im not sure if i understood this point. Do you agree with the Ammo system, or do you think the Window to use the charges should be raised to 15 seconds?

Because if what your asking is for 5 seconds of stealth... then nooooo


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InfestorMordecai

Recruiter

10-23-2012

I agree with most of your changes, I jungle him solely

Passive could you use more scaling
Q is fine I believe
W could use better mana scaling
E is fine

R is lacking. What I believe it should do is give you 10 seconds for 2 charges, or 15 seconds for 3 charges before starting its cooldown. Along with that, I believe it should also give zero unit collision, added movement speed and a CC cleanse

If they cant do all that, I think your idea of charges that generate every so often is the better option. Leave things they way the are but convert it to an ammo style that loads charges every X seconds

I say the unit collision CC cleanse for the old system because it needs to be more "Ult-y" It needs to do a lot and make you feel unsafe when your ult it down.

Now when my ult is down I dont feel much different since my leap is more important for the team fight. You deal damage and try to back out, your team gets a kill and you can then re engage with a refreshed leap.

Leap is your only way to dive past the tank line to get to the ADC and fight him, and once youre in there you have to get a kill/assist to refresh you Leap (I assume EVERYONE gets wings). Once youre in the middle of the enemy team you pick a target and QWRQRQ(RWQ) since you cannot NOT use your ult otherwise you get insta-gibbed. If everything goes well, you can leap out or shift your focus to someone running away.

The unit collision and CC cleanse gives more utility to Kha'Zix, so when trying to get to the squishies you have another option. You can actually ult to not just proc your passive, but as a way to escape or get past enemies to focus a squishy, or even cleanse on hit effects like Darius bleed stacks or Twitch Expunge stacks.

TL;DR

Ult needs either 15 total seconds to use your stealth charge 3 times, have a CC cleanse and allow for no unit collision while stealth-ed OR allow a charge of 1 second stealth every X seconds and allow 2 (3 with Evolved Camo) to be stored


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Least Pro Lee NA

Senior Member

10-23-2012

Quote:
InfestorMordecai:


TL;DR

Ult needs either 15 total seconds to use your stealth charge 3 times, have a CC cleanse and allow for no unit collision while stealth-ed OR allow a charge of 1 second stealth every X seconds and allow 2 (3 with Evolved Camo) to be stored

^ RIOT PLZ. But i would prefer the ammo system over a 15 second period because ammo systems are more flexible


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Eyepop

Recruiter

10-23-2012

Here, have a bump:

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2708630&page=7


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Least Pro Lee NA

Senior Member

10-23-2012

A thought just occurred to me. Honestly if you look at it his Q evolve is the least worth while. A 12% execute on missing health isn't much. at best you get maybe 150 more damage from it. so what if we made it so that the Q evolve makes targets marked with his passive count as isolated? This would solve one of kha's major flaws. In team fights its next to impossible to get the damage bonus and without it your damage is painfully low.