Jungling Gold: How much can a Jungler expect?

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Maleric

Senior Member

10-23-2012

So I'm trying to create a jungling build(specifically for skarner) and wondering about how much gold is considered average for a jungler? I've seen things like I should expect the same amount as a support, but I don't see how that could be considering I'm actually killing things and getting gold from it whereas the support relies only on the natural flow of gold over time (ignoring gp5 items).

How much on average does a jungler get in gold for a game?


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Amatzikahni

Senior Member

10-23-2012

It depends on how well you gank. I've been in games where all three lanes have pushed hardcore and I can't even think about ganking, yet I'm getting counterjungled and losing tons of camps. I've also had games where I grab ~8 kills/assists before 10 minutes while I can easily steal their jungle. Then I've had games where my team keeps dying and all I do is hold lanes to the point where I'm the CS leader. Gold as a jungler is a roller coaster, so you should never depend on having so much by a certain time.

What makes a jungler in today's meta is great ganking abilities, low gold cost (high utility), and map control. Basically, fast clearers who can gank often. You want to get your lanes fed and you want to secure map control, so your personal items are almost unimportant to an extent. Therefore, get GP10 items to supplement all the moving around you're doing, and get aura items which help your teammates during ganks/teamfights/objectives.

If you're looking for a Skarner specific build, try this:
Philo Hog Merc/Tabi, then Aegis/FH (need at least one of each on your team) Shurel Randuin's TF. I remember Gunblade being incredible in the older meta, but I don't see it working today. Other items to consider are FoN, Wit's, and GA but these should be last completions because the other items have so much more utility.

Personally, I get between 2-3 completions by the end of a typical jungle game. My final build usually looks like this: Philo HoG Aegis Glacial Merc Wards with either an upgraded Philo or Glacial.


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Vrakus

Junior Member

10-23-2012

Jungle camps are worth significantly less than lane creeps. A full camp, excluding buff camps, is worth about 3-4 lane creeps (Wraiths 47g, wolves 57g, golems 60g). It takes around as long to go from one camp to another camp and clear it as a laner will wait for their next 6 minion wave to show up, and have no siege minion equivalent every few camps. Buff camps are more gold, but have a 5 min respawn and are often stolen by the enemy team or your laners, so they are not a reliable income source beyond the first clear.

The small camps respawn every ~1min, while a lane gets 6 minions every 30 sec and 1 siege every 90s. While the laner may not get 100% CS, they only need to get 2-3 every wave to stay ahead of the jungler if both do nothing but farm.

Another income issue is that many laners assume that the jungler will gank for them, but not take the kill. This means the jungler is expected to rely on only assists, which may be split with 1-2 other people. Basically, people assume the jungler is just a roaming support and complain of 'KS' when the jungler gets the kill.
So, if you are counter jungled, you lose a lot of gold/time. If someone steals your blue wraith, you now have to spend nearly the same amount of time clear clearing the small wraiths for 12g as you would have the whole came for 47. Also, it takes more time to move between camps, you are expected to gank which has a lot of travel/wait time with possibility of no reward, and laners often steal your jungle at the wrong times, leaving you nothing to get income from.

Note for laners: If you're jungle is on the same side of the map, don't take the camp, unless in the middle of a gank/dragon. If bot takes golems when jungler is at wraiths, that means golems won't be respawned by the time the jungler wants to kill them. Same thing with mid taking wraiths when jungle is at wolves/red.

With the avg solo queue player expecting the jungle/support to do all the warding, the lack of income is very significant.

For an illustration, compare a fast jungle clearer like Shyv or Mundo who will do their first clear by ~3:30 or less. They will get 348g from that clear, assuming they didn't donate blue buff to someone. The laner has gotten 4 waves in that time, including one siege minion. That is a possible ~495g. Next clear 1 min later, the jungler only has small camps, giving ~225g (assume you get wolves or golems twice, at start/end of the clear). While the laner has gotten another siege and 2 more waves for ~270g. Once you include the 0 gold time the jungler wastes running to top/bot only to run over a ward and lose the gank or otherwise have the gank fail, and you can see how the jungler will end up with less gold than any lane. Also remember that lane creeps gold value goes up over time, but jungle creeps only go up if they aren't killed for over a minute, which is fairly rare.

All that said, it's not impossible for a jungler to be the most fed member on a team. I've had long games as say Hecarim with double gp10s, lots of kills/assists, and high CS from holding lanes where I am the top gold earner. But, on average, you will have less than any but the 0 CS support.


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El Jobo Loco

Member

10-23-2012

currently, junglers gain a poor amount of gold simply farming. you can supplement this with successful ganks, counter-jungling, and farming lanes when a teammate needs to B. Tanky/supportish type junglers have the easiest time of things right now, such as Maokai & Nunu.

BUT... I think they are making some significant jungle changes in the Season 3 Update which will affect difficulty, clear-speed, exp gain, and gold gain. so keep yer eyes open.


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doombotMECHA

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Senior Member

10-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrakus View Post
Jungle camps are worth significantly less than lane creeps. A full camp, excluding buff camps, is worth about 3-4 lane creeps (Wraiths 47g, wolves 57g, golems 60g). It takes around as long to go from one camp to another camp and clear it as a laner will wait for their next 6 minion wave to show up, and have no siege minion equivalent every few camps. Buff camps are more gold, but have a 5 min respawn and are often stolen by the enemy team or your laners, so they are not a reliable income source beyond the first clear.

The small camps respawn every ~1min, while a lane gets 6 minions every 30 sec and 1 siege every 90s. While the laner may not get 100% CS, they only need to get 2-3 every wave to stay ahead of the jungler if both do nothing but farm.

Another income issue is that many laners assume that the jungler will gank for them, but not take the kill. This means the jungler is expected to rely on only assists, which may be split with 1-2 other people. Basically, people assume the jungler is just a roaming support and complain of 'KS' when the jungler gets the kill.
So, if you are counter jungled, you lose a lot of gold/time. If someone steals your blue wraith, you now have to spend nearly the same amount of time clear clearing the small wraiths for 12g as you would have the whole came for 47. Also, it takes more time to move between camps, you are expected to gank which has a lot of travel/wait time with possibility of no reward, and laners often steal your jungle at the wrong times, leaving you nothing to get income from.

Note for laners: If you're jungle is on the same side of the map, don't take the camp, unless in the middle of a gank/dragon. If bot takes golems when jungler is at wraiths, that means golems won't be respawned by the time the jungler wants to kill them. Same thing with mid taking wraiths when jungle is at wolves/red.

With the avg solo queue player expecting the jungle/support to do all the warding, the lack of income is very significant.

For an illustration, compare a fast jungle clearer like Shyv or Mundo who will do their first clear by ~3:30 or less. They will get 348g from that clear, assuming they didn't donate blue buff to someone. The laner has gotten 4 waves in that time, including one siege minion. That is a possible ~495g. Next clear 1 min later, the jungler only has small camps, giving ~225g (assume you get wolves or golems twice, at start/end of the clear). While the laner has gotten another siege and 2 more waves for ~270g. Once you include the 0 gold time the jungler wastes running to top/bot only to run over a ward and lose the gank or otherwise have the gank fail, and you can see how the jungler will end up with less gold than any lane. Also remember that lane creeps gold value goes up over time, but jungle creeps only go up if they aren't killed for over a minute, which is fairly rare.

All that said, it's not impossible for a jungler to be the most fed member on a team. I've had long games as say Hecarim with double gp10s, lots of kills/assists, and high CS from holding lanes where I am the top gold earner. But, on average, you will have less than any but the 0 CS support.
here's the problem with your logic: most people (excluding you X.X millionk elo savants) don't always get 100% cs, ESPECIALLY if we're up against an aggressive lane opponent who keeps harrasing us and forcing us to do something about them, like yorick.


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Vrakus

Junior Member

10-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by doombotMECHA View Post
here's the problem with your logic: most people (excluding you X.X millionk elo savants) don't always get 100% cs, ESPECIALLY if we're up against an aggressive lane opponent who keeps harrasing us and forcing us to do something about them, like yorick.
Which is why I said you don't need 100% CS. Laners have ~270g possible gold every minute. This amount only goes up as time goes on. Really fast junglers have ~225g every minute (not all junglers can clear it that fast. Try doing 4 small camps as Shen or Naut in a minute), and this amount does not go up unless the camp isn't cleared, which means the jungler isn't getting income. In reality, it's probably closer to 1:30-2:00 minutes for 4 camps, so you can add another wave or two to the laner's possible income. When you then include the 0 gold time for checking the enemy buffs or waiting to setup ganks, the jungler continues to fall behind even if the lane only gets ~50% CS.


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Sampon

Junior Member

08-16-2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrakus View Post
Jungle camps are worth significantly less than lane creeps. A full camp, excluding buff camps, is worth about 3-4 lane creeps (Wraiths 47g, wolves 57g, golems 60g). It takes around as long to go from one camp to another camp and clear it as a laner will wait for their next 6 minion wave to show up, and have no siege minion equivalent every few camps. Buff camps are more gold, but have a 5 min respawn and are often stolen by the enemy team or your laners, so they are not a reliable income source beyond the first clear.

The small camps respawn every ~1min, while a lane gets 6 minions every 30 sec and 1 siege every 90s. While the laner may not get 100% CS, they only need to get 2-3 every wave to stay ahead of the jungler if both do nothing but farm.

Another income issue is that many laners assume that the jungler will gank for them, but not take the kill. This means the jungler is expected to rely on only assists, which may be split with 1-2 other people. Basically, people assume the jungler is just a roaming support and complain of 'KS' when the jungler gets the kill.
So, if you are counter jungled, you lose a lot of gold/time. If someone steals your blue wraith, you now have to spend nearly the same amount of time clear clearing the small wraiths for 12g as you would have the whole came for 47. Also, it takes more time to move between camps, you are expected to gank which has a lot of travel/wait time with possibility of no reward, and laners often steal your jungle at the wrong times, leaving you nothing to get income from.

Note for laners: If you're jungle is on the same side of the map, don't take the camp, unless in the middle of a gank/dragon. If bot takes golems when jungler is at wraiths, that means golems won't be respawned by the time the jungler wants to kill them. Same thing with mid taking wraiths when jungle is at wolves/red.

With the avg solo queue player expecting the jungle/support to do all the warding, the lack of income is very significant.

For an illustration, compare a fast jungle clearer like Shyv or Mundo who will do their first clear by ~3:30 or less. They will get 348g from that clear, assuming they didn't donate blue buff to someone. The laner has gotten 4 waves in that time, including one siege minion. That is a possible ~495g. Next clear 1 min later, the jungler only has small camps, giving ~225g (assume you get wolves or golems twice, at start/end of the clear). While the laner has gotten another siege and 2 more waves for ~270g. Once you include the 0 gold time the jungler wastes running to top/bot only to run over a ward and lose the gank or otherwise have the gank fail, and you can see how the jungler will end up with less gold than any lane. Also remember that lane creeps gold value goes up over time, but jungle creeps only go up if they aren't killed for over a minute, which is fairly rare.

All that said, it's not impossible for a jungler to be the most fed member on a team. I've had long games as say Hecarim with double gp10s, lots of kills/assists, and high CS from holding lanes where I am the top gold earner. But, on average, you will have less than any but the 0 CS support.
Yes, although the jungle has changed a ton since you posted this, you still didn't take into account that the jungler will be getting at least 3 camps before they start respawning in the mid-late game, at which point that's about 180 gold for 50 seconds which is 1.66 creep waves which at 20 gold a creep is about 220 with a perfect cs.