A Non-TT Player's Thoughts on the New Map

12
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Runix

Senior Member

10-31-2012

Let me say, at the outset: I am not a long-time Twisted Treeline player. I actually think that that's an important perspective, however, as I am likely to be in the minority on this forum. I tend to play a variety of play modes, and I'm not particularly good at any of them, so this is just the perspective of a thoroughly average player.

So, my thoughts on the new map.

The old Twisted Treeline wasn't working. I know a lot of people here love the old map, but honestly, you're in the very small minority. As with many other LoL players, I gave the map a try when it came out, and loved the concept, but found that it really only worked for a very small number of Champions and a very limited set of play styles, and quickly gave up on it.

And I don't think I am the only one who had that experience - while there was considerable interest in it upon release, the number of players playing it dropped way off shortly thereafter, and I'm absolutely confident it was far below Dominion in number of games played until the new map was released (just count the number of live streams - what few non-SR streams are out there are almost all for Dominion). The old map wasn't working for most players, and the reasons why can be debated all day long, but the numbers don't lie. The LoL player base, as a whole, did not like the old map, however much some of you may love it.

The map pool should be kept small, at least for matchmaking. I'm neutral on the question of whether the old TT map should be available for custom games, but as far as the matchmaking queue goes, I totally agree with Riot that the number of options needs to be kept to a reasonable level, or wait times will get drawn out (this came up in the discussion on the possibility of a new 5v5 map, e.g., Magma Chamber). I think Riot should pick one 3v3 map and stick with it, at least for the queues.

The thickened walls increase the pool of viable Champions by decreasing the effectiveness of blinking. Blinking was just way too powerful on the old map, which was a Shaco/Ezreal dream come true, as a blink or a Flash could get you out of trouble on virtually any spot on the map. Blinking is still really powerful, but positioning and map knowledge are now even more important than before, as it's critical to know where blinks are possible (on the old map, that was pretty much everywhere) and where they are not.

Fewer objectives closer to the lanes increase the team dynamics. I really like the fact that there are fewer objectives, but of more importance. The previous map was much friendlier to a jungling approach, but the problem was that the jungler would often get isolated in the jungle - particularly in the northern jungle - and not be as involved in what was going on on the rest of the map. Fewer objectives that are closer to the lanes means that the third player is strongly encouraged to roam instead of camp the jungle, which makes for more dynamic combat. Also, players have an interesting set of options to choose from: push lanes, control the altars, ambush from the fog of war, go for the spider? That's a contrast from the previous map, which was basically push the lanes while waiting for your jungler to emerge for a gank.

I love the speed booster. This is just a great feature, as it often gives a very interesting risk/reward choice: take the speed boost route or take the safer route? If it were positioned anywhere else it would be a waste of a feature, but as it's right in the center of where the action often is, it makes for an interesting choices on pathing.

I like the altars. Strictly speaking, you don't need them (this is why this map is not Dominion, despite the many claims to the contrary), but they're a very nice quick reward for winning a team fight, even if you only force the other side to retreat. One problem with the old map was that you could force a team fight and all but win it, only to have the other team blink away, and you're left empty-handed; now, you get at least an altar out of it. They're also a good reward for effective map control. And they're excellent for baiting out team fights - something like the role the Lizard played on the old map.

I like the reliable camps. Randomized camps were very frustrating for anyone other than a very solid jungler - now, even if I'm not playing a jungler I can have an idea of which camps I can take and how quickly.

I love the Spider, but only two entrances/exits is too few. Yes, Baron and Dragon on SR both have only one entrace each, but there are several routes they can be approached, and both can be sniped over the wall, which isn't really an option for Spider.

New items are a mixed bag, but generally an improvement. I like some of the new items, and generally agree with the thought of improving the options available for dealing with very tanky enemy Champions, given the extent to which bruisers still dominate the map. Still, I think the items may be a bit heavy on the damage side, which ironically makes it even harder for squishier Champions. I think I'd prefer to see some more damage/survivability options that don't just add HP (and so just make bruisers even more annoying) - e.g., more items like Hexdrinker, which allow DPS Champions to stay focused on damage output, but which mean that they don't get blown up the second someone's ult goes off.

I'm not sure what to think about the removal of wards. I realize Riot does not like the ward farming that has come to dominate high-level SR play, and is not-so-secretly hoping to reduce the importance of the wards overall. Even so, I'm not sure cutting out wards entirely is the right option. One alternative approach may be to limit wards to just a few expensive items that allow warding as an active ability on a timer. That would allow for a few critical wards, without the map being a ward farm like a tournament SR game.

Bruisers and assassins still dominate, but other Champions are somewhat more viable. Yes, Mundo and Shaco still own the Twisted Treeline, but the changes to the map and to the items have opened up options a bit. Overall, the Champion pool is going to be balanced for Summoner's Rift, and there's really nothing that can be done about that, so Champions that fit well into the SR meta may simply not work in TT, that's the way it goes. But to the extent that the range of viable Champions can be expanded through tweaking TT-specific items and ironing out map problems like the thin walls, it's worth doing.

I am much more likely to play this map than the old one. I'm just one player, but that's my view on it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Redenbacher

Senior Member

10-31-2012

I'm in the same boat as you, Runix. My attempts to appreciate the old TT were quickly squashed for the same reasons you described. I enjoy this iteration much more, albeit there is still some work to be done to get it where it really needs to be.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Runix

Senior Member

10-31-2012

Thanks Redenbacher. I don't think the map is perfect, and will very likely need further adjustments. But I think it's moving in the right direction.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Sessamo

Senior Member

10-31-2012

Amazing feedback, if nothing else.
I agree that new Treeline is definitely a step in the right direction. I think that the altars need to unlock at a later time, because they're just too huge right now, and forced early fights usually end in the favour of bruisers.
I think that most of the items are super successful, but the mage items really need to be looked at. Torch has horrific gold efficiency unless you're Singed, which is the opposite of what you want.
I think that towers need to be stronger against bruisers. Give them more armor pen, give them longer range, something. It's way too easy to dive soft targets and vanish to safety in the early game.
I think Vilemaw needs to give a better buff, but I'm extremely happy he's a force now. Ebonmaw had the power of a superminion, except he gave your team a huge gold advantage.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

chaser676

Senior Member

10-31-2012

Probably the best and most useful feedback currently on the board


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Runix

Senior Member

10-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sessamo View Post
Amazing feedback, if nothing else.
I agree that new Treeline is definitely a step in the right direction. I think that the altars need to unlock at a later time, because they're just too huge right now, and forced early fights usually end in the favour of bruisers.
I think that most of the items are super successful, but the mage items really need to be looked at. Torch has horrific gold efficiency unless you're Singed, which is the opposite of what you want.
I think that towers need to be stronger against bruisers. Give them more armor pen, give them longer range, something. It's way too easy to dive soft targets and vanish to safety in the early game.
I think Vilemaw needs to give a better buff, but I'm extremely happy he's a force now. Ebonmaw had the power of a superminion, except he gave your team a huge gold advantage.
Really good points.

I've read comments on delaying the unlocking of the altars, and I think I agree. Moving it back to after the minions have come into contact would make for interesting choices: get the minion and gold XP, ensure a friendly altar capture, or challenge the enemy altar capture? Right now it's just "hide in the brush by the speed boost and really really hope you win the team fight".

More ArPen by towers would be a welcome change. I think tower-diving should be viable, but right now it feels like Mundo can just turn on his regen and laugh at the tower, because the damage output against high HP Champions just isn't significant enough.

I don't know enough about the mage items to comment - although I confess I have bought Torch on Singed. In my defense, Singed was my main on SR for a very long time, and Torch is just a really good item for him!

I'd also like for the Spider fight to be a bit more of a challenge, with a correspondingly larger buff. Also, as I noted above, better options for sniping Spider or ambushing the other team while they're engaged with it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Aikimiller

Senior Member

10-31-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runix View Post
More ArPen by towers would be a welcome change. I think tower-diving should be viable, but right now it feels like Mundo can just turn on his regen and laugh at the tower, because the damage output against high HP Champions just isn't significant enough.
+1000. This is brilliant, and is one of the few map specific ways they could easily dis-advantage bruisers. It's not just mundo that can tower dive either, pretty much any tanky-DPS can ignore towers past the first few levels.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Albireo

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

10-31-2012

Quote:
The old Twisted Treeline wasn't working. I know a lot of people here love the old map, but honestly, you're in the very small minority. As with many other LoL players, I gave the map a try when it came out, and loved the concept, but found that it really only worked for a very small number of Champions and a very limited set of play styles, and quickly gave up on it.
That playerbase was the people who actually play the mode, nowdays you see more people playing it because is new and etc, but they will return to SR anyway shortly, the same way it happens to Dominion, and then even the old TT fans will not even have that mode the way they want it.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

The Flaming Fist

Senior Member

10-31-2012

My friends and I love the new TT. We're playing it almost exclusively. I feel it combines the best of SR with the best of Dominion. More continuous action, but creep score still makes a difference and strategy is important.

I really feel that this board is flooded with outspoken old TT players who are such a small percentage of the player base.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Soft Tortoise

Senior Member

10-31-2012

Finally a thread that isnt somebody complaining. I agree w you man. I played the old map all the time. (ery little SR or Dominion) The new map is much more viable for team games and the objectives are close together which keeps the team together. This is a team game after all.


12