moakia help

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blastatack

Senior Member

10-19-2012

Can any one post a good guide to playing him top and jungle please (every bit counts!)


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Taoquitok

Senior Member

10-19-2012

here's my guide for Jungle tank maokai, copied from another thread and edited for typos/clarity.

Maokai has a variety of good jungle routes and is a very capable ganker, tank and initiator. Below is the primary route, but you can also start at wolves/blue or their wraiths if you want to be aggressive.

WARNING: Maokai is VERY mana hungry, especially if you want to be aggressive. you likely can't give blue away (and still effectively gank and counter jungle) until the 3rd or 4th blue if you're not able to steal theirs.

In terms of runes, I play with attack speed marks, movement quints, armour yellow and mr/lvl blues.
Masteries are 0/21/9 http://leaguecraft.com/masteries/000...31130001000000
Smite+Flash
I start with the 15hp/5 item + 1 hp pot and I chuck one sapling in base so as to get 1 stack + mana back. Then I go to wraiths to near 1 shot them. Chuck your first box around 1:08, second on cd and then chuck the 3rd at 1:39-40 so that it'll deal the initial damage + explosion, just hit the big wraith, it'll die in 1-2 hits.

run to blue, you should get there around 1:55-2:00 depending on how used to this route you are.
DEMAND a hard leash from mid (or damage if they're incapable of getting blue to spin on the spot). You'll probably pop your pot there otherwise.
lvl2 rank up Q. lvl.3 rank up E (sapling) again. lvl.4 grab 1 point in W and leave it as that till the end.

Once Blue is dead, go Wolves > Wraiths again > Gollums > Red (DING LVL 4). At this point you can either gank mid/bot IF they're in a good position to do so and you have the health (more than 1/3 health). if not, go wraiths (they'll spawn within a few seconds of getting there after red) and then either gank mid or go wolves then gank mid/top if possible. If not possible and you have more than half health, counter jungle their wraiths.

B > phil stone + boots if you haven't ganked. If you have ganked successfully and got enough money (around the 1200 mark I believe) ignore the boots and get a heart of gold.

From this point onwards it's all about 1. farming your jungle. 2. warding up their jungle and stealing their big minions. 3. ganks

To gank:
Initiate with W, instantly move ahead of them and use your Q to knock them up towards your team and while doing this chuck a sapling slightly ahead of them.so they'll have to run into it. Presuming your team is on the ball and you haven't just tried to gank their tank, the target will be dead very soon.. if not, chase as far as willing with your W and Q to keep them close.
Once you have your ult, also put this ahead slightly so that they either have to run through it (and so you can pop it just before they leave it) or try to run around it

Ability level route
lvl 2 gank (unlikely as mao as ganking usually requires Q and W and you really can't start with anything except E. This will only work with say a blitz bot or others with roots/stuns) E > W
lvl 4 ganks E > Q > E > W
Post lvl4. you want to level up Q and E first. it really is personal preference as to which you do first. I generally either alternate or go Q predominantly after E hits rank 3.

Item routes.
15hp/5+1hp pot
1. philo.stone +boots (or Heart of Gold instead if you can afford)
2.merc treads/ninja tabi depending on their team comp
3. Catalyst/chalice. (Maokai is very mana hungry, even with blue you can go oom fast, especially with your ult up). Your choice between the two is personal preference / whether you have the gold. Personally I've been going catalyst for the extra hp (good for your passive) and then either upgrading it early (either rod of ages or banshies) or sell it very late to get something specific to counter their team.
4. giant's belt
5. warmogs (if you're good at ganking you can sometimes skip 4 for this straight off)
6. depending on who's the damage output on their side, either upgrade your heart to a randuin's or go for a force of nature.
7. upgrade whatever you haven't upgraded / get specific items to counter their team (frozen heart/thornmail/banshies/etc.

By the time you hit point 6 on the above list you can tank a full team under a turret as long as everyone keeps on spamming abilities and you keep on meleeing while standing within your ult.

Your purpose in team fights is to jump on their adc/ap and make sure they can't get away from your own dps. It also is to protect your team from those chasing them by using W and Q to keep them rooted/slowed. There has been numerous times I have saved a low health team mate because I jumped the chaser and just stayed close enough to them to spam slow and root them.


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blastatack

Senior Member

10-19-2012

Thanks


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Amoc

Senior Member

10-19-2012

A couple of things need fixing with the above guide.

First of all, you want to get the mastery in the utility tree that gives you extra starting gold. Regrowth Pendant + 1 Hp pot isn't an ideal start. It can leave you vulnerable at the end of your jungle clear if you didn't get a great leash and that's when you'd want to start ganking, as near to full health as possible, so the extra health pot from the extra gold is actually sort of important!

Next, don't get move-speed quints. Get AP quints. It makes it so you can blow up the wraith camp immediately when they spawn, and makes your early clears a lot easier.

As for build, I disagree with a bunch of his suggestions. First, I'd rarely (pretty much never) build HoG on Maokai. It's a good item for a jungle tank, but you're not generally going to turn it into Randuin's and although the GP10 is nice, I usually find you want to be building his core ASAP rather than hanging on to that forever.

CORE:
Philo stone
Merc Treads/Ninja Tabi (almost always Merc treads)
Catalyst
Glacial Shroud

From there depending on how things are going you can upgrade Catalyst or Glacial first. Usually Catalyst into Banshee's Veil (but sometimes RoA if you're an out of control ganking star) or upgrade Glacial Shroud into Frozen Heart.

After the above it's pretty situational. Spirit visage is almost core since it provides a bit of everything Mao needs (Hp, CDR and MR + it buffs his passive, which is incredibly useful). Wit's End isn't actually bad on him either if you need some dps for similar reasons. I play the charred Maokai skin so it's fun to play with sunfire cape (I'm a tree on fire already) but it's usually not necessary. Zeke's Herald lowers your CDR and helps your AD. There are lots of options. Warmog's, however, is not something I would suggest.


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Sereg Anfaug

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Senior Member

10-19-2012

And to correct yet another guide...

Don't get starting gold. That's for supports. You don't need it if you do a proper start, which is boots + 3 pots.

MS quints are also useful in the jungle, moreso then AP - if you're playing an AP bruiser mao, that's one thing, but he's generally played as a support-tank jungler, which means you won't be needing much AP. However, the extra mobility from the boots start and MS quints means you get around the jungle much faster, which means more ganks, which is the key to jungling.

As far as items, do get both HoG and Philo. Both are useful beyond just the gold gen, and both build to items you'll want eventually. Mob boots are a good choice on mao, but tabi/treads are also quite useful.

If you're going AP bruiser mao, catalyst into RoA is a good idea... if you're going support/tank, don't bother with it. I'd never suggest a veil on mao.

Aegis and Frozen Heart are both good item choices. I also like to build Soul shroud on support/tanky champs, and Sunfire cape can be a good item for either build.

Hope this helps.


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Amoc

Senior Member

10-19-2012

I have to disagree with a few of your remarks. I think you generally want to head fairly far into the utility tree for Mao for the 6% CDR. He's already one of the top 2-3 tankiest champions in the game so he can survive without the damage reduction, and I'd rather have 6% CDR all game, than 8% by level 18, especially when you're going to max it out easily with items.

The extra 40 gold from the wealth mastery is actually kind of a big deal, as are the AP quints, early game. Without the 15 AP you won't be able to clear the wraith camp properly and will need your leashers to stick around while minions in their lanes are dying. Without clearing wraith camp, you won't be level 4 after your first clear and heading for your first gank. Without the second health pot from wealth, you're not going to be at high enough health for the gank either. It will be a dangerous gank and you risk either not being able to or potentially getting killed. Level 4 Mao ganks are extremely badass and this can really swing the odds in the favour of one lane.

You can go boots +4 pots with utility masteries, or if you want to go 0/21/9, that's fine I guess, but you'd probably want to start cloth armor + 5 pots instead or you'll finish your clear too low. Boots + 3 won't cut it, especially not without AP quints.

As for items, Randuin's really isn't ideal IMO. It takes way too long to build into something useful and and it can be redundant since Frozen Heart is so clearly better for him. That's why I don't think HoG isn't a great early item. You're better off building Aegis, Catalyst or Glacial Shroud IMO. Aegis or Catalyst are my preference because I like the health buff and they also provide some early utility. Randuin's would maybe be a late game item against an AD heavy team where you need to help your team mates survive even harder. It's pretty rare you'd need it on top Frozen Heart.


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lockpooh

Senior Member

10-19-2012

I play a lot of jungle mao and it's a rough game that mao can't carry. I agree with the CDR but I strongly disagree with the +40g & the AP quints.

AP Quints- I would never go AP quints just to clear wraiths. In reality, I go movement quints. When you get good with Maokai, a lot of people are going to run when they see you and you'll need to chase em down to smack em in the face. A lot of ADC etc run movement speed quints and you'll need to catch up. You'll never do this if you run AP quints. Movement speed quints have scored me many kills and gave me the edge in ganks that I otherwise wouldn't have net my lane a kill.

In regards to wraiths, lay down a sapling at 1:06, another when it's off CD and wait till 1:39 to toss the 3rd up in the air, it'll land at 1:40 when they all res and blow the little wraiths to death. 1 hit the big wraith and it'll die. Move to blue just as they leash and you are good. If you lay down all 3 before the wraiths spawn, it WILL take 1 hit on the little ones and 2 hits on the big ones. There, now you don't need AP quints!

In regards to the 40g, movement speed is king. Boots + 3 pots and I can clear wraiths > Blue> Wolves> Wraiths> Red> Golems > Wraiths> Wolves. Return, get whatever you want and gank. I don't run AP anything nor the 40g extra and i do extremely well. Movement is king on Maokai! a 4th pot is a waste.