The DFG nerf was too harsh.

First Riot Post
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TheQueefelTower

Senior Member

10-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Well, to be unpopular, they dialed down my suggestion. I wanted to remove it from the game.

I think that item's existence destroys diversity and interest - you should just use DFG on all burst casters, and all balance needs to factor in an extra nuke. There's no case where DFG is good and DFG isn't abusive - that basically is the definition of toxic.

So then how to do now explain the current state of LeBlanc and Veigar after this nerf? Even with DFG LeBlanc struggled to remain relevant past 25 minutes. Veigar needs this item as well to be relevant up through 35-40 minutes.

Hell, if it weren't for Annie's AoE stun she'd be crying too. Newer champions, such as Diana and Syndra, also utilize this to make their kit useful in terms of damage.

The problem is that you've created champions that rely on this to be effective in the current metagame. You just removed some of these champions from the game with this nerf.


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HolyHammerStrike

Senior Member

10-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Good idea, imo ;p
Did you expect this level of support for removing DFG?


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jzstyles

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Senior Member

10-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Good idea, imo ;p
Yes please I want Brand to be viable since hes gonna have an awesome new skin.


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AtomicWaffles

Senior Member

10-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Good idea, imo ;p
very good idea.


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Mxie

Recruiter

10-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Well, to be unpopular, they dialed down my suggestion. I wanted to remove it from the game.

I think that item's existence destroys diversity and interest - you should just use DFG on all burst casters, and all balance needs to factor in an extra nuke. There's no case where DFG is good and DFG isn't abusive - that basically is the definition of toxic.
Honestly my biggest problem is the CDR change. I fully agree that DFG was too powerful, but now it seems that APs that want CDR either have to build mana regen, which is great on some (Anivia), meh on others (Ahri), and a huge waste of stats on manaless (Kat).

So is there some new item coming for those that like the AP and CDR, but don't want mana?


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imweasel09

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Senior Member

10-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Good idea, imo ;p
Its still a little depressing to see that until we get another really comprehensive balance patch sustain damage mages are going to be even stronger than burst casters because they're losing dfg. We all saw anivia/oriana/karthus in the finals, they are better with the current dfg and will just pull further ahead until you buff burst casters and assassins.


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Morello

Lead Designer

10-18-2012
3 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by M0ngo Like Candy View Post
If this is your logic, did you try and delete Eve as well?
No, we could fix her. This item has fundamental flaws based around the entire item's core design.


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Kanodin

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Senior Member

10-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Good idea, imo ;p
Well what's stopping ya then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NadalKenlyl View Post
I'd be fine with removing DFG and rebalancing champions around its removal if they happened in the SAME patch or at the very least next one. Nerfing things hard and letting them flounder for months is where Riot has had the biggest amount of problems imo.
Also this.


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Arrivederco

Senior Member

10-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
No, we could fix her. This item has fundamental flaws based around the entire item's core design.
Morello, please tell me you're considering the DFG nerf and the Eve nerf together.

Combined they are probably the single biggest nerf a champ has ever recieved in a patch.

Do you think this is reasonable? Eve has a really fun playstyle that shouldn't be completely gutted (again).


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Morello

Lead Designer

10-18-2012
4 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by J Frenchy View Post
So then how to do now explain the current state of LeBlanc and Veigar after this nerf? Even with DFG LeBlanc struggled to remain relevant past 25 minutes. Veigar needs this item as well to be relevant up through 35-40 minutes.

Hell, if it weren't for Annie's AoE stun she'd be crying too. Newer champions, such as Diana and Syndra, also utilize this to make their kit useful in terms of damage.

The problem is that you've created champions that rely on this to be effective in the current metagame. You just removed some of these champions from the game with this nerf.
Temporarily - we're seeing burst men be really good in S3 playtests. Instead of crutching them on the item, I like the more holistic approach to this problem.