[Official Petition] Let new TT be a new map by itself.

First Riot Post
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TheRealPoots

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Junior Member

11-07-2012

Signed


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KBB Droonx

Junior Member

11-07-2012

I used to mainly play 3 vs 3, even though those things people call bugs and I just loved it. Now when this beta was released, I'm forced to play 5 vs 5 because I get bored too quickly on the new one. I just don't have to make any strategy at all. I pick Kayle all the time go on top farm farm kill kill push push, I've played like 7-8 games there and I'm not going to play a single one anymore. I'm not crying, I'm just dissapointed and sad a bit, because I've started to play LoL after few years I've spent in Tibia hoping, that there will be no place and respect for leaving community's voice without echo. In the end, I've learned how to play rankeds 5vs5 and it seems Im going to stay there for a while.

Still hoping Ill be able to play !oldschool 3 vs 3 rankeds! again some day.


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Sireth5

Junior Member

11-07-2012

Signed. I agree. The old Twisted Treeline was great (Better than the old one, on my opinion), and there's no need to remove it. Also i say that the map information when creating a custom should be actualized... Since when the Shadow Isles are on Zaun? Lol


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ElXera

Junior Member

11-07-2012

Signed.


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Aquilux

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Senior Member

11-07-2012

Signed.


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Alpha Q23

Senior Member

11-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volibar View Post
Hi all, just wanted to drop by and say a few things. To start off, we certainly have been reading this thread and watching it over the past few weeks. I haven't been posting here because I wanted to see the overall sentiment from around the community about the new Twisted Treeline after people have had a chance to play it and experience it for themselves in a meaningful way.

I've also addressed some of TT topics on our Reddit AMA we did a few days ago, but I'm happy to discuss here as well

When we started looking at Twisted Treeline really intensely earlier this year (around the start of 2011), there were many issues that the community had identified. Among the worst were turtling, the meta being pretty stale, and there were a pretty big number of exploits that had way too much of an effect on the game. (You probably already know this, though.)

So, when we sat down to try and solve the problems, the solution space we started in was small - can we make a few simple changes here or there? What if we make a few item changes, etc.? Those helped, but ultimately we started expanding what we tried, but at the same time we were seeing better resolution to those problems. We adjusted the layout, sometimes making small changes, sometimes trying things we thankfully didn't ship (and we tried a TON). In the end, the map we created and all of the changes that have come with it was our answer to the problems that have plagued the map for a very long time. Our goal has and will always be to allow the fast pace, high action, small team feel that TT should represent to flourish.

As for the fate of old TT, right now we have no plans to add it back into custom games. we wanted to make sure that we don't split the focus of our players for each game type. For the same reason we probably won't ever create a 5v5 map that's really similar to Summoner's Rift, we didn't want to split the TT community between two maps. There's really no winner in that scenario, as there are two maps to support, two metas to maintain, and overall a really small delta between the two. We'd rather have you and our teams focused on one, working together to make it great as opposed to two, having neither of them living up to their full potential. If competitive TT is also going to take off, having two maps, even in custom games, is detrimental.

Let's be clear though, this is still Twisted Treeline. It is a bit different and sometimes change can be a little disruptive, but when we took a look at what we had on our hands after thousands of playtests, we wanted to release the new TT to you and get feedback as part of our Beta process. That's still ongoing, and we're going to continue to listen to your feedback and make changes going forward, ensuring that TT has the support it deserves.

I understand that you guys put a lot of effort into this new map. However I don't see your point of splitting up the new tt player base by having two tt maps. I have tried to play the new tt map, bottom line for me is that it is not entertaining for me. For that reason I will not be playing tt anymore. The new map looks nice, but it's just not fun for me. I am sure there are many other old tt players who feel the same as me and will also be split away from new tt.

The only reason I use to sign on to lol was because of the old tt map. It was like that same ol stale 5v5 map yet different enough to make it entertaining. Now that the old tt is gone I have found very little reason to log on to league of legends,and if I do I can't seem to want to play any of the modes that are left.

I really hope you will reconsider and bring old tt back and let us, the tt players decide if we want to play either tt map. I now feel like the money I have put into skins has been wasted since I can't find myself playing anymore.

When I first played lol I tried summonses rift, but because of playing Dora for a couple of years before league, I grew bored of that summoners rift style map. Then I found old tt and got hooked. Dominion isn't a bad map and is fine from time to time. This new tt map just doesn't strike my entertainment bone. First I can't stand the altars and the jungle needs to be a bit bigger. The speed shrine is meh. I'd rather see the red buff return or a red/blue rotating buff.


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PurpleURP

Senior Member

11-07-2012

rioter post is a ****ing cop out
there were no game breaking exploits on old TT
this new map is a 5s player fixing a 3s map, they aren't the same
bring back old TT


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Alpha Q23

Senior Member

11-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omesh View Post
Don't try to rewrite anything here-- that's not what people are complaining about. The very post I quoted, in fact, strictly labels SI Treeline as "3v3 Dominion". That says nothing about creating an imbalance between PvE and PvP elements, or that SI Treeline "feels" like Dominion; that's outright calling SI Treeline "3v3 Dominion". There's no nuance or room for interpretation there, and that's true of a number of similar threads and posts that have been made in the wake of the patch.

If you want to make this an argument about the "spirit of MOBA games", that's one thing, and I actually think that's a worthier conversation to have. But that's not what the post I responded to argued, not in the slightest.



So why are they playing Treeline? Treeline was always been much more about PvP than PvE, even with the older jungle. I'm not sure this argument holds much water-- compare the two jungles side-by side. Classic Treeline had eight neutral monster camps (2 Wraith/Golem camps mid, Grez mid, 2 Wolf/Golem camps top, 2 Buff camps top, Ebonmaw top); SI Treeline has seven (Vilemaw top, 2 Golem camps mid, 2 Wraith camps mid, 2 Wolf camps mid). How is that so drastic a reduction in PvE elements?

What I think is really "off" about this argument is that the new jungle is much easier to reliably use as a source of income-- the camps are consistent, their difficulty is reasonable, and they give lots of gold (particularly if you keep up altar buffs). Decent jungle champs can very easily utilize the revenue off of jungle mobs, which I assume is what you're talking about when you refer to "PvE" elements; on top of that, Vilemaw, though in need of tweaking, is an excellent PvE objective for players to vie over.

That's to say nothing of the altars, which are a balance between PvP and PvE objectives-- they force player confrontations, which is on the PvP side, but they're also similar to jungle camps in that they need to be maintained and captured on a regular basis for best effect, which feels a lot like a PvE objective. (Not to mention the hidden SI lore embedded in them, which is strictly PvE.)

So, sorry, I don't really think the "MOBA spirit" has been diluted much if at all here.



Well, I get that. But that's Dominion.



Unless you can point to how overhauling Treeline will provide tangible positive financial gains that are more unique than those gained by virtue of SI Treeline being "new" (acknowledging that new content does drive revenue up), I don't see how you can make this argument credible. We can only really suppose based on how companies, products, and markets function, but I've yet to see any hard evidence from you that supports this continued claim. Until you produce it, I can't really take this seriously. Please take no offense to that.

I

SR is a very different map from Treeline; its sheer size allows it to maintain that balance between PvE and PvP play really, really easily, so if this had been done to SR I'd be confused. Such an overhaul would make no sense. But Treeline != SR. The size of Treeline lends itself toward an increase in PvP over PvE, so the fact that there are any PvE elements at all is something of a miracle. The fact that they've been retained in the remake shows that Riot cares about the map's history, I think, and while the map overall requires some maintenance and updates, I think they're going in the right direction.

Obviously you don't care about the old tt. So why are you even here? The thing is, if they brought the old tt back it would not affect you at all.

And about your last paragraph, true sr is a different map, however some people,like me, loved the old tt as much as sr people love the sr map. To old tt players like me the problem is not riot releasing a new map, it's the fact that they got rid of the old tt. Its a slap to the face really. And this is exactly the same feeling that summoner rift players would feel if they replaced sr with a new 5v5 map. The old tt map was our map that we loved.

Again having two 3v3 maps would not effect you in any way. I would gladly take longer que times to play old tt. And until they bring old tt back I don't think I will be playing much lol. If I do it will be proving grounds or dominion. For now I'm returning to mount and blade war bands.


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Omesh

Senior Member

11-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha Q23 View Post
Obviously you don't care about the old tt. So why are you even here? The thing is, if they brought the old tt back it would not affect you at all.
Bulls**t. I do care about the old Treeline. I care about Riot retaining the essence of the map in the remake while getting rid of the stuff that was wrong with that map, which I believe that they've more or less done here (barring, of course, the tweaks that they need to make). I basically did nothing but play Treeline when I started, and stuck with Treeline even after getting into SR and Dominion-- neither of which I play with much frequency.

The only reason I have to be here is to voice my opinion because I care about the state of Treeline, not make demands in my own self-interest. Hell, I was wary of the remake at first, but I gave it a shot and wound up really liking it. (If you're not aware: I signed this petition earlier, under the belief that the remake went far beyond the scale of the changes players have been asking for on the map.) So I'm at a point where I really think a number of the remake's critics haven't given it a fair shot.

You also bring up long queue times in your final paragraph, and yes, that's how a pair of Treelines would affect me. I play in between hours when I'm maintaining a home, a relationship, a job, and a paying hobby, so the less time that I spend not playing when I want to play, the better. If I want to avoid anything, it's longer queue times.

Quote:
And about your last paragraph, true sr is a different map, however some people,like me, loved the old tt as much as sr people love the sr map. To old tt players like me the problem is not riot releasing a new map, it's the fact that they got rid of the old tt. Its a slap to the face really. And this is exactly the same feeling that summoner rift players would feel if they replaced sr with a new 5v5 map. The old tt map was our map that we loved.
Which is why I'm not against, say, keeping Treeline around for custom games. But I don't think the game needs two 3v3 maps that are so damn similar. It doesn't make sense. (And they are similar. Adding altars and removing buff camps and increasing wall sizes don't make them categorically different.)


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boomtrooper37

Junior Member

11-07-2012

I'm all for this map once i can actually figure out what I'm doing. But I agree that the new map should be its own map. Make it something like "The Shadow Isles" or something. Twisted Treeline is Twisted Treeline and I want it back!