Do you think the latest lores/lore reworks are better or worse than in the past?

I think the lore is worse overall than it used to be 53 66.25%
Some things have been better, some worse. I am neutral 20 25.00%
I think the lore is better overall than it used to be 5 6.25%
I have not noticed a big difference between recent and past lore 2 2.50%
Voters: 80. You may not vote on this poll

Lore Quality Poll

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LordOfLoot

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10-17-2012

league lore has changed a lot recently. Even though its a topic I see a lot of posts about, very rarely do I see any red responses, and what red posts we get are usually one liners.

I am making this poll both to get a feel for what the community really thinks of the new direction of the lore, and to hopefully get some actual discussion with the lore team going. community-developer interaction is one of Leagues strong points, but I feel that this is lacking from the lore team and I know I'm not alone in that sentiment.

So please, tell me what you think about Leagues new lore direction. Hopefully we can get some red discussion as well


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Vanity Blade

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Senior Member

10-17-2012

Lore is going downhill. If I need to explain as much as to why, people then don't really know what good, or even mediocre writing is.


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sleepyj101

Senior Member

10-17-2012

Community/dev talk would be rather nice but sadly the devs only listen to praise which is never a good thing.


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LordOfLoot

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10-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanity Blade View Post
Lore is going downhill. If I need to explain as much as to why, people then don't really know what good, or even mediocre writing is.
Personally I agree with you, but I want to try and be constructive and get into those specifics. To say "this new lore sucks", or "the writing is awful" doesn't help. what specifically should they be looking at? I have ideas, but I want to know what other people think as well.

I also want to know what people do like about new lore. Already this poll has some people saying they like certain things about the lore. I also see the occasional post that says 'love the new lore, great job riot' (or something of the like). I want to know specifically what these people like, what about the new lore is alluring to some people.


sleepyj101:
Community/dev talk would be rather nice but sadly the devs only listen to praise which is never a good thing.


I agree, I feel like this is a big problem. That's why I'm trying to get some discussion going in as civil and constructive a thread as possible


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sleepyj101

Senior Member

10-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordOfLoot View Post
I agree, I feel like this is a big problem. That's why I'm trying to get some discussion going in as civil and constructive a thread as possible
They haven't listened nor replied to civil posts that countered them yet. I'm not gonna hold my breath. If anything the snowball is already going down the hill. The lore may officially be destroyed as we know it.


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LordOfLoot

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10-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepyj101 View Post
They haven't listened nor replied to civil posts that countered them yet. I'm not gonna hold my breath. If anything the snowball is already going down the hill. The lore may officially be destroyed as we know it.

Well, it can't hurt to try, and I don't think Riot is the kind of company that would ignore its community if it continually voiced its disfavor. It might take a while, but speaking calmly and sincerely with constructive criticism can only help.


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painspider

Junior Member

10-17-2012

Let's do a compare and contrast:

"Fiddlesticks"

Quote:
For nearly twenty years, Fiddlesticks has stood alone in the easternmost summoning chamber of the Institute of War. Only the burning emerald light of his unearthly gaze pierces the musty darkness of his dust-covered home. It is here that the Harbinger of Doom keeps a silent vigil. His is a cautionary tale of power run amok, taught to all summoners within the League. Decades ago, there existed a powerful rune mage from Zaun - Istvaan. At the end of the fifth Rune War, he became one of the League's first summoners. Too much a prisoner to the old ways of magic, Istvaan stepped further and further outside the rules of conduct in the League. In what was ultimately his last match, his reach finally exceeded his grasp. Sealing himself inside the easternmost summoning chamber, he began incanting the most forbidden of rituals - an extra-planar summoning.

What exactly happened inside that chamber remains unknown. No champion came to represent Zaun that day in Summoner's Rift. Only silence echoed back from repeated knocks on the chamber door. The first apprentice who entered was cut down immediately by an unearthly scythe. What few who followed and survived were driven mad by fear, mere husks of men gibbering about crows and death. Afraid of the evil even Istvaan could not control, the League sealed all exits to the chamber, hoping they could contain what they could not destroy. Years went by, but the wooden figure within never moved save to slay any foolish enough to enter. Seeing no recourse to reclaim the chamber, the Council instead devised a use for Fiddlesticks: executioner. While he comes to life and seemingly abides by the rules of summoning in the Fields of Justice, what he awaits inside his chamber is unknown. His unmoving face yields no clues, and his scythe stands ready to strike down any who stand before him.

Those who say 'you have nothing to fear but fear itself' have not yet felt the crows.
Fiddlesticks' lore is rich, and well written. It references the League, greater lore such as the Rune War, and has an interesting concept. The word choice and many of the sentences are really quite striking. Now, for something different:

"Syndra"

Quote:
Born with immense magical potential, Syndra loves nothing more than exercising the incredible power at her command. With each passing day, her mastery of magical force grows more potent and devastating. Refusing any notion of balance or restraint, Syndra wants only to retain control of her power, even if it means annihilating the authorities that seek to stop her.

Throughout her youth in Ionia, Syndra's reckless use of magic terrified the elders of her village. They took her to a remote temple, leaving her in the care of an old mage. To Syndra's delight, the mage explained that the temple was a school -- a place where she could develop her talents under his guidance. Though she learned much during her time there, Syndra no longer felt her power growing as it had in her youth. Her frustration grew, and she finally confronted her mentor, demanding an explanation. He revealed that he had dampened Syndra's magic, hoping to help her learn control and restraint. Accusing him of betrayal, she advanced on the mage, commanding him to lift the spell that was holding her back. He backed away, telling her that if she couldn't control herself, he would be forced to nullify Syndra's magic completely. Furious, she summoned her power and dashed the old man against the walls. With her mentor dead, Syndra felt the rush of her unbounded potential for the first time in years. Though she had won her freedom, she refused to return to the society that had tried to steal her gift. Instead, Syndra decided to claim her former prison as a stronghold. Pushing the boundaries of her magic, she tore the structure from its foundations and raised it into the sky. Free to delve further into her art, Syndra now aims to grow powerful enough to destroy the weak, foolish leaders of Ionia -- and anyone else who would dare shackle her greatness.
Syndra's story is really lacking, all we know about her is that she's really strong in magic and reckless and then we get a recount of her killing her mentor (who doesn't even get a name, he's so boring). It's very stereotypical arch-villain stuff, and there's nothing special about the composition of the lore, either, especially when compared to Fiddlesticks'. There is also no explanation of why Syndra is in the League of Legends, what she hopes to accomplish in the League, etc, and though Ionia is mentioned a couple times it's the only real connection to any of the other lore... I mean I could exchange that with Skyrim and it would hardly matter.

These are just two examples I'm sure others can come up with more.


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Lagginator

Senior Member

10-17-2012

Previous lore aside, the new Karthus lore is very generic. If you remove Karthus's name from it, what do you have? Some random person who was so obsessed with death they became undead, and now want to show others the beauty of death. If that is going to be his new background, and not some supplemental piece, then that's a problem because there's nothing in the story that really ties it to the champion you see in-game. If you gave someone that lore, showed them a line-up of all the undead/skeletal/decomposing champions in LoL, do you think they could pick out the real Karthus instead of someone like Sion? I think in that whole thing, the closest we get to something Karthus-specific is one instance of "lich" and one instance of "requiem", and neither are really made part of the story.

You really said it in your other post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordOfLoot View Post
I think what we really need to do is send a message to the Riot team (and specifically the lore writers) that we are interested in preserving the lore presented to us by the JoJ and other such canon Riot creations, we are interested in preserving the essence an older champion's character (even if a lore is reworked), and that we expect a higher standard of lore than they have provided with many of their newer entries
"we are interested in preserving the essence an older champion's character (even if a lore is reworked)"
I have a HUGE problem with the Soraka rework because of this exactly. They didn't just change up her background story a bit, they re-worked her entire character into one who is younger and more naive. The old Soraka lore/model had a matronly air about her; she was someone who wielded great power and wasn't afraid to use it (which is precisely the cause of her downfall). The new Soraka was simply taken advantage of and looks like she's a teenager. Why should anyone fear or respect her on the battlefield?

The absolute worst part about the new Soraka model was that they changed how she walks. Before, she had this funny, unique walk. Now she looks like she's on stilts or has peg-legs. I've lost all interest in playing Soraka since the lore/model re-work. She flat out isn't the same character as far as I'm concerned; I refer to the new one as Soraka's daughter.


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Quiksilvur

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Senior Member

10-17-2012

I understand lots of the complaints, and I can totally agree with some points, but I don't think the lore is as bad as some say.

Soraka and Warwick are reworks I honestly liked a lot. The feel of the characters are maintained and given depth. (Soraka's apparent youth is an issue I'm neutral to, and I have no qualms.)

Karthus is a bit mixed. I really liked the mysterious and chin-scratching lore that was Karthus beforehand, but I like his new lore quite a bit. The tradeoff of mystique for depth and actual material lore is one not easily quantified, so I'm iffy. However, the new lore is interesting, and I don't have a thing against it.

Mordekaiser's the same way.


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LordOfLoot

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10-17-2012

First of all, Lagginator, I want to ask that we don't bring up in game model disputes, etc. I'd like this to remain about the lore.

To Quiksilver, I think the problem people have with the reworks is that they don't feel that the characters are maintained.
I think Warwick is a prime example. While the vaguest theme of 'bad guy' is kept in place, everything else about him has been changed. The feel one gets from a mercenary is very different than the feel of a brutal scientist. In his new lore we get the feeling that he desires to transform to get more money, to further his business. Before we have a sense that he takes pride in his deadly science; killing people is his pleasure. He is still cold, but hes not the same person. There is even a complete reversal on his feelings about his werewolf form. With scientist Warwick we get a sense that he was a monster inside already, and is so pleased to be able to live out his horrid violent fantasies. The mercenary Warwick is worried about losing his humanity and gives off the feeling he thinks his transformation was a mistake (his incomplete transformation for certain). All of this is not even mentioning the fact that it currently contradicts Singed's lore.

With Karthus, he has changed from a mystery with subtle hints to a generic evil wizard. Is his new lore terrible? No, I don't think so. I think if placed on a new champion it would not be half bad. But it isn't Karthus, not the Karthus we know. He is now just an undead creature who wants to undeath everyone else. Its very simple, generic, and contradicts his former more reserved self. It also directly contradicts a lot of side lore from the Journal of Justice. its exciting to have facts slowly revealed about a mysterious character like the JoJ did, but now those are being thrown away.


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