PLEASE Fix AFK/Leaver game in Ranked

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Battlepad

Recruiter

10-17-2012

Seriously,

I won't whine about people not knowing how to play and going in ranked, it's their choice and their rights, and all other stuff that can happen in ranked.

But, as you support a championship of a million dollars and aiming at making the game as balanced and fair as possible (which you are doing really well in term of gameplay), should you be aiming at making it a fair and fun experience to everyone ?

At some point, playing normal queue gets boring, you need a prize, a way of prooving your worth and all of this. Ranked is exactly this, however, how do you manage of wanting to pursue working your butt off to the top of the chart, if you might loose precious points (which is, personnal invested time) when people just suddenly rage quit, afk, disconnect, etc. ?

It's all good, you got tribunal and "REPORT" button for the leaver, you got a win for the people on the other team, but what about the collateral damages of the people in the team of the AFK/Leaver ??? To my knowledge... none.

In order to keep the hypes around LoL, the sportmanship around it and fair equal chance of succeeding, you definitely have to find a way to protect the one being attack by those misconduct.

I.e. when a guy is flagged "RED" by your system as leaver/afker; there's an automated "no ELO loss" on the loosing team players (except the leaver). Same thing if the guy disconnected more than 25% of the game time when the game finishes, etc.

Please please please, oh almighty riot team... could you fix this ?


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ninjagear

Senior Member

10-17-2012

ur suggestion is NOT a new idea

i understand that ur mad someone on ur team left, but its their right (and urs too) to leave any game at any time. its called freedom. and im going to use the simplest example of how ur 'no elo loss' for a team with an afk can be abused:

i am top lane Jax, and i start off really bad. i get ganked by the jungle twice really quickly, like back to back, first at lv 2 then at lv 4. becuase of the two early deaths, my lane opponent Garen gets to lv 6 before me and he kills me under my tower with his ult (im underleveled from dying to the early ganks). Garen goes on a killing spree, and starts wrecking my entire team. my whole team, mid lane, the two people bot lane, and our jungle, all say at the same time 'jax ur a feeder, if u dont leave the game right now, we are all going to go afk, and then report u after the game', now everyone on my team is mad at me, stay or leave i still lose, and i have to leave the game or face getting reported (which the tribunal might give me a pass for or might not, i could face a ban)

why would my teammates treat me this way? because with ur 'no elo loss' system, if they force me out of the game they lose no elo (regardless of how they preformed in that game)


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Amatzikahni

Senior Member

10-17-2012

High Elo matches could also be rigged using this method.


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Battlepad

Recruiter

10-17-2012

No necessarily, in your case, if 4 players go AFK; they all loose elo, even re-inforce by a double or triple elo loss.

Second options, if you do decide to leave to prevent your team-mates to loose elo, by putting a double or triple elo loss, I don't think people will sacrifice every single time.

Third option, this "no elo loss" could happen once a day, or once per 3 days, or even only once every 10 games...

There's always way to abuse the system, but with the given efforts, there's also way to make sure it is fair and do-able.

Also, to make sure the system don't get rigged, the elo points could be taken away, but then given back once the tribunal has ruled.

And, for the "freedom" part (even though it's irrelevant), there's also the "players agreement part". When you start a team game, you make sure you have the capacity and the time to play the match. Else, don't do it. You have the freedom to not play if you don't want to, but if you do decide to play, you have the responsibility to play what you have agreed upon. You could consider clicking the "OK" button is kind of an agreement/contract between players... Freedom is a concept that is over abused to justify stuff... Remember, you have the freedom to do as you please, you are born free... but if you do abuse that given freedom and impact negatively other persons, there's usually a system in place to b* slap you back...


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Gray the Grayte

Senior Member

10-18-2012

Heres a much better way of doing this taken from my Suggestions for improving solo ranked play thread

1) Make the ELO system fairer for blatent 4v5 situations

TLDR;Summary

  • Make the team of 4 lose less ELO for a loss and gain more ELO for a win
  • Leave the 5 team on normal ELO gain/loss
  • Penalise the AFK/Leaver person to balance the total ELO to zero sum game
  • Auto ban the AFK/Leaver for a day from ranked (can still play blind pick)

Problem
  • It is harder to win 4v5.
  • The ELO loss/gain should reflect the likelihood of winning.
  • Currently you lose the same ELO for a loss even if you were disadvantaged by an AFK/leaver and you gain no additional recognition if you pull off a win against the odds.
  • Where it is blatently obvious that one team member has caused a loss by being AFK/leaver, more of the ELO loss should go to them and the team should lose a smaller amount.

Solution
  • It is relatively easy to detect some of the scenarios that are AFK/leaver ones. Examples are
    • Disconnected from level 1 (i.e. they simply never connect)
    • AFK (i.e no keyboard/mouse activity at all) for 10 consecutive mins
    • Disconnected more than 10 mins total (does not have to be consecutive)
  • In these easy to detect scenarios the game should have special treatment as an "AFK affected game"
  • In an AFK affected game the 4 side would lose less ELO if they lose and gain more ELO if they win as the odds are against them.
  • The 5 side's ELO loss or gain would be as per usual (they have done nothing wrong and may even have caused a rage quit)
  • The AFK player's ELO would be penalised to balance both teams to a zero sum game (to prevent ELO inflation)
  • The AFK would also get an instant one day ban from ranked only. This is not overly harsh as they can still play blind pick. It acts as a damage mitigation exercise so they can't screw up anyone elses ranked games for a day.

Example
  • We have detected a leaver/AFK affected game.
  • Lets say that each player would have gained/loss 13 ELO for the win/loss.
  • Lets say the Leaver/AFK affected weighting Riot has chosen to implement is 25%
  • If the team of 5 wins each person on the winning team will gain 13 ELO as per normal
  • Each member of the losing team apart from the leaver/afk is going to lose 10 ELO instead of 13 which is a saving of 3 ELO.
  • Now we take the 3 ELO saving for each losing team member and load it on the leaver/AFK meaning they lose 13+(4*3)=25 ELO
  • If the team with 4 wins then the team of 5 would lose the normal amount of ELO (13)
  • The leaver/afk ELO gain would be distributed amongst the team of 4 meaning he/she gets 0 gain and they gain his/her share (13+(13/4)=16 ELO each).
  • This keeps it a zero sum game and also keeps the team of 5 happy in both scenarios


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Battlepad

Recruiter

10-18-2012

Again, there is solutions and possibility to soothe the ranking system to give a break to people who get stuck with leaver/AFKer.

I know my thread is not a breaking ground thread and my ideas are not unique. Other ways around exist (just got proven by Gray). Question is why is this not being adressed after 2 seasons ?

I want to keep that thread bumped up until we get a rational explanation.


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Puritys Disciple

Senior Member

10-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battlepad View Post
Again, there is solutions and possibility to soothe the ranking system to give a break to people who get stuck with leaver/AFKer.

I know my thread is not a breaking ground thread and my ideas are not unique. Other ways around exist (just got proven by Gray). Question is why is this not being adressed after 2 seasons ?

I want to keep that thread bumped up until we get a rational explanation.
Because your team of 5 lost to a team of 5, and that is the reality of the situation. People can and will leave games for reasons out of their control. You assume this risk when you choose to play with 4 other people you do not know on any fundamental level.


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Battlepad

Recruiter

10-18-2012

I am talking about AFK/Leaver, not about skills here.

When I guy disconnect from the start of the game and never reconnect.

If, as you call, there is a risk of AFKer/Leaver cause of the game PVP matching system, then it should be assessed and the game design in itself should be designed to mitigate or diminish the risk as much as possible. Which is currently not done for ranked game.


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Puritys Disciple

Senior Member

10-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battlepad View Post
I am talking about AFK/Leaver, not about skills here.

When I guy disconnect from the start of the game and never reconnect.

If, as you call, there is a risk of AFKer/Leaver cause of the game PVP matching system, then it should be assessed and the game design in itself should be designed to mitigate or diminish the risk as much as possible. Which is currently not done for ranked game.
It is addressed. Their chance of getting negative elo is almost assured for not playing in the game. They also cannot play any other game until that one is over. They can also go before the tribunal.

You lost the game, so did he. There are mitigations in place, you just don't acknowledge or like them. Your team still lost to their team.


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ninjagear

Senior Member

10-18-2012

any system that protects a team that loses the game (regardless of why they lost) will eventually be abused to the point of that system being detrimental overall. there CANNOT be a door that allows people to gain/lose more/less elo. if there is a door someone will find a way to pick the lock.

if this was the NFL no one would stop the super bowl because one team had an injured starting QB, everyone would say 'they would have won had the real QB been there.' but it in the end things happen, u have to learn to work around it and work thru it, not find ways to complain about it and stop making effort.

its not Riots responsibility to sort thru every game and go 'oh this game had someone that got dc'd during the last teamfight, no elo loss.' 'oh top lane got camped by their jungler, while the other jungler did nothing, no elo loss.' 'oh look, someone trolled that game, no elo loss.' 'bad picks in champ select, no elo loss.'

if u dont carry ur thots out to the eventual conclusions u r working with an incomplete set of data. again, for the record:

any system that prevents a loss of elo to the losing team will be abused to the point where that system is detrimental

the only exception to the above rule is to include a live judge (referee) for every game played, and that wont happen so dont get ur hopes up.


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