How to build Janna?

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Ordray

Recruiter

10-17-2012

If you want an AP heavy support, Karma is great, but she's very hard to master. Late game you can easily put up a 600 health shield on your allies and heal them most of their missing health. She's one of the most under-played and under-appreciated champs in League right now imo. Probably because she's so hard to play well.


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ArtDZ

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Senior Member

10-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastBaron88 View Post
No, Im not level 30, but I do know what a support does. Lux to me is not a real support because of her ridiculous burst damage, and I do not generally enjoy laning with lux players because they do not give much in the way of sustain. Similarly, Janna's only heal is her ult, which scales with AP fairly well, but you need LOTS of it to be an effective healer. I get the AP so that I can literally reset an unfavorable engage for my team by healing them back to full and separating the enemy team in one go. Since I don't get a heal during laning phase (though I do pick up Summoner Heal to compensate), and I can't clear minion waves until my whirlwind is maxed, I just build GP10s early and buy wards anytime I am at base and have less than 2. My gold comes from the retarded amount of assists I get (I average around 30 in a good game) from my Disruption, Shields, and Heals. Getting my Shield first allows my carry to bully enemies right out of lane and trade damage very favorably, but I generally have to be much more aggressive than say a Soraka would, and actually put damage and cc on enemies to secure my carry the kill. I do use whirlwinds lategame to stop the enemy team from pushing turrets under cover of their creep wave. I think it is working well, but I wanted an outsiders perspective, so let's keep this thread civil, shall we?
Quite frankly auras and letting your ADC have more gold is better for your team then taking kills/CS to buy deathcap. You should not be able to afford those kind of items if your playing support. Lux is not a support she is a solo mid. Lux is very weak as a support.

Janna is not a healer use your ult for repositioning there team mostly (tiny bit of heal is just a bonus). Janna is picked because she is good at stopping initiation and resetting teamfights.


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TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

10-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtDZ View Post
Quite frankly auras and letting your ADC have more gold is better for your team then taking kills/CS to buy deathcap. You should not be able to afford those kind of items if your playing support. Lux is not a support she is a solo mid. Lux is very weak as a support.

Janna is not a healer use your ult for repositioning there team mostly (tiny bit of heal is just a bonus). Janna is picked because she is good at stopping initiation and resetting teamfights.
I believe you may be missing a few details here, sir. I have already stated (truthfully, I might add, though I really shouldn't have to) that my gold came from assists. I believe the game in question I went 4/1/31, with only 50 CS from defending turrets and keeping my lane frozen while ADC is back at store, while my 4 kills were from endgame teamfights. And I also had 2 GP10s the majority of the match. Really, the Mejai's stacks fast and gives me the AP that I enjoy. Which, yes, to most the Heal is a bonus, but it really does allow me to do just as you said, and LITERALLY reset a teamfight to where my team is at full health while the enemy team is not, and is also out of position as a result. I simply find that, thus far, I feel like I am contributing more by actually having some threat. It has a big psychological effect on the enemy team when they are actually concerned about your harass. Not to mention how strong that Shield gets when you have some AP for it to scale with. Have you ever tried her built this way? Just a sidenote, I have been running her with Flash and Summoner Heal, since she basically has built in Ghost.
As for the Lux comment, I agree completely, this was basically what I was trying to get across, but it was not directed at you. Someone earlier had suggested her.
Regarding Karma, I have actually been wanting to try her for some time, for the reasons stated. To the person who suggested her, have you had any time with her yourself? I would like to know a bit more about how she plays, if you have.


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phil002

Senior Member

10-18-2012

I play Janna quite often and it seems you know how to play her. The question is what are you skipping out on buying to help your adc while you save for the ap items? I definitely don't think ap is bad for Janna and I've messed around with some as well but the auras will tend to help your team more than the ap.


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Yamanga

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Senior Member

10-18-2012

where do you get all the money for this build?
and if you build ROA you should build it early in the game or it's a waste of money.

edit: ohh i see where you get the money, you take cs from your ad carry making him weaker
so basicly you get stronger but make your MVP weaker, sounds like a plan!


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TheLastBaron88

Senior Member

10-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamanga View Post
where do you get all the money for this build?
and if you build ROA you should build it early in the game or it's a waste of money.

edit: ohh i see where you get the money, you take cs from your ad carry making him weaker
so basicly you get stronger but make your MVP weaker, sounds like a plan!
Thanks for taking the time to actually read my posts before running your gums about them. /sarcasm.
For the LAST TIME that I will be saying this, my gold comes from ASSISTS which get my carry fed.
Anyway, I actually needed to make a correction here, the time I got 31 assists was a bot game wherein I finished my build. I dont remember if an ROA was even included, but I am aware of how it works, though I do appreciate the advice nonetheless. The game I was thinking of was one where I went 1/1/10 and got as far as a Rabadans while keeping my lane warded at all times, and we ROFLstomped teamfights right up the middle to win it. Too much disruption for them to focus our Win Nao effectively, and whoever he targeted would have to break my shield before they could hurt him. That thing seems to scale EXTREMELY well with AP. And of course my ADC was there too, he was fairly terrible and was being bullied out of lane by Poppy and Taric because he would never engage while shielded, but he made sort of a comeback towards the end. Clearly was derp, but I managed to net him a kill or two anyway. Believe me when I say it was difficult to do.


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Amatzikahni

Senior Member

10-18-2012

You're forgetting something vitally important to the essence of any conflict, real life or videogame.

Personally gaining strength is not the only way of gaining strength. You can also gain strength by weakening your enemies or improving your allies' strength.

FH lowers their ADC's damage by ~20% in addition to lessening the amount of on-hit effects they can do. It also gives you CDR which helps to disrupt them more frequently and reset more fights with a shorter Ult CD. Aura items improve your allies' stats, and you want to make sure your ADC and AP have all the power they can get. Shurelya's gives your whole team a speed boost which helps in initiating, escaping, and reaching key points in time (though the last one is mainly used for disrupting their Baron attempt). Randuin's and Locket both have their uses, but I prefer Locket on Janna to act as another shield; it also gives 3 health/sec to each of your teammates which, although is practically invisible, still helps. Aegis provides your whole team with Armor, MR, and AD for a total savings near 2500 gold (I did the math in another thread not five minutes ago). Merc gives you MR and Tenacity which is invaluable in some comps, or Tabi gives you more tankiness against AD-heavy teams.

To recap, Shurelya's, Locket, FH, Aegis, Merc/Tabi is a pretty awesome build that, in addition to all the auras and unique effects, gives you 35% CDR (meaning more ability spam meaning more disruptions to the enemy team). The last slot should be open for wards. If all you do is build AP, then your purpose is to kill the enemies; that's what your AP carry is for, and as the support with practically no income, you need to make the most effective use of the little gold that you obtain in order to benefit your team as much as you can.

Now to debunk some stuff that's been said.

Mejai's should never give 20 stacks unless your team has already secured the victory (and you can build AD Janna if that's the case; it doesn't mean Mejai's is a good item). If you're in a lower Elo match, enemies probably won't have the focus or coordination to take out a single target that has a snowball item, so in those circumstances it could be a viable item; otherwise, at higher Elo matches, you'll be focused down so fast and lose any teamfight presence you had. Assuming you're not building full tank, you won't survive a single second once they get on you, and that's not even enough time to use all three of your normal abilities.

Bots are nothing like actual battles. You really can't lose to bots, but you lose to players all the time (most people go around 50-50, and the exact stats for the totality of LoL is exactly 50-50 to a billion decimal places). Therefore, you must play as if your team will be down often, and aura items are the cheapest items in the game for the benefit they provide. If you build pure AP, then you become a liability to your team because they now need to protect you in teamfights, and you already should have an ADC and AP to protect leaving only two defenders for three people. This is not favorable since the enemies can lick their lips and choose any juicy target they want and there's not much you're going to do about it.

ADC's have the best scaling in the game. AP's only have linear benefits; when they gain 80 AP, their abilities gain ~80 damage/healing/whatever unless you have Rabadon's or the Offensive Mastery that multiplies AP. Therefore, your gold is converted into usefulness linearly. However, a Dagger (+15% AS) at the beginning of the game might only add ~20 DPS (with low AD), but near the end of the game, it may add over 100 DPS (with high AD). Therefore, the same item has increasing benefits with each prior purchase and is therefore exponential in nature. Because of this fact, you want to feed your ADC as much as possible so that his exponential growth is abused and can pentakill the enemies in mere seconds. Stealing CS from an exponentially growing character for a linearly increasing character makes zero mathematical sense unless you were playing entirely for midgame (which some comps do). One last thing to realize about ADC's: they do the most tower/structure damage. After a fight, they will be the ones dealing ~75% of the damage to towers while the other four players deal the remaining ~25% combined. The faster you get your ADC to scale, the faster you can down towers and the better poke you will have when sieging.

Karma is a bad support because she scales on AP (her only utility is a slow/speed boost which is hardly anything compared to every other support). Due to her AP scaling, she's best played with a high gold income, and that means AP mid.

I'll lastly cover wards since it was brought up and doesn't seem well understood. One ward costs 75g (125g if you're clearing other wards (25g per ward kill) and provide vision against Eve/Shaco/etc) whereas the price of one death is ~300g + ~175g for assists in addition to all the gold and XP you lose from minions and potentially towers/objectives. If you do the math, between 6 (minimum) and, say, around 10 wards maximum costs the same as one death. As long as you watch the minimap (which, if you don't, that's a place you can improve), six wards are easily worth their weight since that means 18 minutes of specific-area coverage or less time but spread coverage to allow for gank defense, objective stealing, invading, and catching people out of position. Because of the defensive nature of wards, they allow you to zone enemies with less danger and allow you to farm/harass further into the lane without overextending. Therefore, wards also allow you to gain more gold/XP and deny more gold/XP which, even if it's only a 5 CS difference, means that they are profitable (assuming 15g per minion kill).


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ArtDZ

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Senior Member

10-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLastBaron88 View Post
I believe you may be missing a few details here, sir. I have already stated (truthfully, I might add, though I really shouldn't have to) that my gold came from assists. I believe the game in question I went 4/1/31, with only 50 CS from defending turrets and keeping my lane frozen while ADC is back at store, while my 4 kills were from endgame teamfights. And I also had 2 GP10s the majority of the match. Really, the Mejai's stacks fast and gives me the AP that I enjoy. Which, yes, to most the Heal is a bonus, but it really does allow me to do just as you said, and LITERALLY reset a teamfight to where my team is at full health while the enemy team is not, and is also out of position as a result. I simply find that, thus far, I feel like I am contributing more by actually having some threat. It has a big psychological effect on the enemy team when they are actually concerned about your harass. Not to mention how strong that Shield gets when you have some AP for it to scale with. Have you ever tried her built this way? Just a sidenote, I have been running her with Flash and Summoner Heal, since she basically has built in Ghost.
As for the Lux comment, I agree completely, this was basically what I was trying to get across, but it was not directed at you. Someone earlier had suggested her.
Regarding Karma, I have actually been wanting to try her for some time, for the reasons stated. To the person who suggested her, have you had any time with her yourself? I would like to know a bit more about how she plays, if you have.
50 CS is alot (someone else should probably be taking those tower CS) and majai's isn't good considering if it comes to it the support should be willing to sacrifice his life for the ad carry. Plus you have to build it early to gain those stacks and that gold is better spent elsewhere.

4-1-31 sounds more like your team doesn't know how to end the game (ping objectives after taking an advantage). Yes, i've tried AP janna because i enjoy doing variety or some may call it trolling in normal games. As far as winning the game is concerned you should be spending that gold elsewhere. Zeke's/Aegis/Shurelya's etc.. Most games you should maybe have enough gold for 1-2 of those 3 items before the game is decided.

Oh and oracles but i find most low level games are pretty devoid of wards.

Flash is standard. Very rarely is ghost applicable. Exhaust is better then heal on supports.

Karma is also a solo mid (pretty weak as a support). If your looking for strong supports Taric/Sona/Leona/Blitz/Nunu

But i like I said before random games are pretty random even when you hit 30. This stuff is more of a playing with higher skill level groups (like lets say premade ranked 5s or higher elo rank solo queues). I've gotten nearly anything to work in just blind pick games heck sometimes playing properly isn't even always good for winning because your supporting a team that doesn't really understand what your doing.


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Amatzikahni

Senior Member

10-18-2012

Oh, and I should add (thanks ArtDZ for the reminder) that Janna can be played AP mid. Her kit makes her an amazing support, so most people assume that she's only a support, but she can be a viable mid against certain comps.

On another side note, I've seen support Fid, Galio, GP, Kayle, Lux, Malph, Morg, Nidalee, and Shen all work against certain bot combos at various levels and capacities, and Lulu/Soraka are other support/AP champs that do well in either role.


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Wibbiz

Senior Member

10-18-2012

I've mained Janna since I bought her around level 12 because she's so fun and at first I played with build around a lot, starting as support then ap and back and forth trying out new item paths and such, until I decided to try a support tank build (0 damage) and I never went back. Here is how I build, I know, it's 0 damage, but it's also 0 cs and much fun and really feeds your carry epic kills.

Gold generation seals and quints, armor reds to make up for non-armor seals and mr/level (or flat, I just prefer per level for bot lane as you likely won't fight a mage til later on) with 0/9/21 masteries. I go CV and flash for good utility.

Start off with a Faery Charm, 3 Sight Wards or 1 Vision and 1 Sight (and you will stock up on these all game along with an Oracle's Elixir when you think you are tanky enough not to die for the rest of the game) along with 2 potions. I am not sure anymore if I get the wealth mastery to achieve this, if so it is only level 1. Rush Philo Stone and Heart of Gold as you would expect, then buy Mercury's Threads for epic escape capability. Get Force of Nature next, allowing for you to take a few hits, go behind you carry when you're low and let him finish off whatever ennemy is in front of him shooting in tornadoes and slows. Start with the health regen unless you get exactly 740 gold, if so get the cloak and go support mid for a short while. When you're back, get Warden's Mail (awesome lolz when focused) and finish Shurelya's Reverie for better initiation and whatnot. Then get Randuin's Omen, these two item's actives will make your opponents hate you. This is normally the time when the game is ending, if it is not go for a situational item (Frozen Heart, Banshee's if their mage is doing better than their ad, etc.) The method is to plant a tornado, run in with Shurelya (or keep it for a second), ultimate in the middle of their team, let your carry get a kill, Randuin's if he doesn't or is in danger, if you haven't used Shurelya use it to chase the remaining opponents.

With Janna people have the reflex to focus you, well mid-late game you are hard, hard to kill and pretty fast so... well they won't be able to focus you down fast enough while you on the other hand are disrupting their team so hard that your carries get an easy job. When you have a real tank with you on top of that, you are in business my friend.

You can go in their team trololo and come out, regen your health very fast with Randuin, Shurelya and Force of Nature it's just not funny, rush back in, keep disabling, make it so that when an ennemy is out of position they dearly regret it, it just allows for so much utility that your ennemies will have nightmares when Cait starts shooting.

0 Damage yet trololo wins. Done it so many times, it works, it rocks, worth your time. Go! Go!

Edit: made the items in bold so they are easier to spot


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