The Life of a Jungler

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SentinelOfPain

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Senior Member

10-15-2012

This Journal is inspired from the 100 game challenge, a challenge where you have to play as the same character in 100 games. I figure I might as well do this, but highly doubt I will play Shyv all 100 games in a row. Every game up to 100, I will document with some stats, my build, and my thoughts on the match. Each game is done in normal queue, blind pick.

Why I choose Shyv: Currently as of 10/15/2012, I have minimal experience with Shyvana. I have heard she has a really fast clearing time in the jungle but weak ganks. From personal experience playing against Shyvana players, I know that she can become really hard to kill and generally don’t even bother chasing or attacking her. Aside from this, I can play any role effectively and have been jungling a lot, so I choose to get more familiar with a jungler I haven’t really played yet.

Game One

Outcome: Defeat
Score: 5/4/3 KDA
Date: 10/15/2012
Position: Jungler
End-game build: Mercury's Treads, Wriggle’s Lantern, Phage, Giants Belt
Damage Done: 77,373
Damage Taken: 16,538



Thoughts on the game:

Fairly typical normal queue game. At the start Ziggs refused to leash red, but Riven covered for me. Also at the start the Riven said it was her first time playing Riven so I was expecting her to do mediocre at best. She ended up with 5 kills and 7 deaths at the end of the game. The enemy team had no jungler. Because I got boots first, I was able to get red then wraiths fairly quickly, then breeze through wolves.

The downside to this is that I had low health without the extra armor and sustain from taking cloth/5 pots. I got to blue very quickly however, and pinged for Ziggs to come take it. I waited until I was about to die and only when I left did he finally decide to come over and get blue. I went back to base and healed up, then went to blue.

When I got there and got it low, Ziggs had a three second window to get blue buff. He was level 3 and could have easily thrown his bomb (because he didn’t even help me damage it prior). I still had red, but I’m sure anyone who has played at least 20 games could have gotten blue with a bomb or even an auto-attack, both of which he was in range for. As it turns out, I got blue buff because I did a bit too much damage to it, and my red DoT decided to finish it off. After I got it, Ziggs through a bomb. This delayed reaction led me to believe he was drunk, and he probably was.

Instead of dwelling on this, I decided to notice how CDR affects Shyv. It helped me get around faster because I could use my AoE more with its passive ms buff, but because auto-attacks help cooldown my q, and because I don’t have mana, blue buff is very much a waste.

I headed to top, and noticed Garen was really low on health, so I decided to kill him. He was so far overextended (and over-confident with his lane partner Swain) that I just use e, popped w after his q to keep up, then used my q to finish him off. I don’t remember what happened to Swain after that, but I assume he lived.

I won’t tell the whole story of the game as I can’t remember all of it accurately, but I will mention major parts. There was at one point, four of us at bot. Two of the enemy team were dead, and two of them were top. I pinged for dragon multiple times, and I even asked for drag, but we never did it. Instead, we tried to push bot tower and failed (but later got it) and went back to our respective lanes (of which top was pushed and our tower taken).
In the future, I’ll try to focus more on Shyv and how I can improve, but I mention all of these other people because it was like they absolutely refused to cooperate or even communicate with me. What I was happy about though, was Shyv’s ganks.

Normally when people talk about Shyv, they’ll say her ganks are really weak. I agree, but in this particular game, I was able to gank very effectively, and even dive to some extent and allow others to get a kill. What Shyv lacks in CC she makes up for in mobility. In addition, her q is very bursty and I enjoy surprising people with it.

If I could improve on anything, it would be how I use dragon form. I’m not comfortable with the sudden change in abilities, and I tended to miss a lot more than I should have (although to be completely fair, the times I missed were against Ezreal and occasionally Amu when he flashed and used q to escape). If I could improve, I would improve my use of dragon form.

Game Two

Outcome: Defeat
Date: 10/15/2012
Score: 7/3/0 KDA
Position: Jungler
End-game build: Ninja Tabi, Wriggle’s Lantern, Frozen Mallet
Damage Done: 67,395
Damage Taken: 16,251

Thoughts on the game:

With the championship done it seems Riven has gotten popular, and therefore new Riven players are born. I got another one that lost to top pretty hard and bot was doing pretty bad themselves.

This time my ganks seemed really powerful. I went bot twice and got a double kill both times. Mid was Kassadin vs. Kassadin, so pre-6 for mid I got two successful ganks. I killed their jungler by counter-jungling once.

The enemy top was Hecarim. This posed a problem for me because even if Riven would stun, he would flash and run away. Even with my W, I can’t keep pace with Hecarim.

I got dragon form down a lot better compared to last game, and even got a couple of my kills while in the form. Last match I leveled my q over w but I tried w over q this time. I like the extra speed from leveling it and I got around the jungle faster, but I missed the extra damage from my q.

Part of what influenced this decision was the fact that I started cloth armor/5 pots this time. With my w I made excellent time and felt safer in the jungle. Honestly though, it didn’t make too much a difference and I think I can start boots so long as someone leashes for me.

The same type of thing happened to me last match with blue. My Kassadin didn’t come even though I pinged until I needed to be “issued more pings.” Eventually once I left, he came. If you play mid, and the jungler pings for you to get blue, GO GET BLUE, DO NOT MAKE US STAND THERE.

When it comes to Shyv, I’m not sure what I should prioritize. While most people will say W (according to the majority of guides) I seem to be able to pull off ganks. It’s probably because I’m going against players that aren’t warding, or maybe they’re just greedy and want that adc kill, but my q really helps damage wise. Then again, the W gives much needed MS. It’s honestly the hardest choice I have to make as Shyv.

If I ever end up playing her at a high elo, I’ll probably choose W. Honestly if the other team wards or has a lot of CC I might as well get W so I can plow through my (and the enemies’) jungle faster. Just seems like the smarter choice.

A gripe I have about Shyv is that in team fights her CC is weak (just her dragon), but she can get really tanky in dragon form and people seem to want her dead. If people are focusing me, they aren’t focusing the ADC (sadly this match the adc was ashe and had 0 kills with minimal farm (50 something from memory).

Game Three

Outcome: Defeat
Score: 1/2/2 KDA
Date: 10/15/2012
Position: Jungler
End-game build: Ninja Tabi, Wriggle’s Lantern, Ruby Crystal, Long Sword
Damage Done: 40,072
Damage Taken: 9,280

Thoughts on the game:

This time we surrendered at 20. Bot lane had a combined total of 0 kills and 7 deaths. Top lane couldn’t win without me, and mid wasn’t winning either, but I can’t say she was completely losing.

The kill I got occurred somewhat in the middle of the game, Olaf was chasing Lee Sin past the turret and I flashed over the wall from jungle and killed Olaf. Without me, Olaf would have killed Lee sin which barely had any health left vs. the more than half health left olaf. Shyv was really effective at ganking an over-extended Olaf because she doesn’t care if Olaf pops his ult. Of course right after I got that kill bot started crying that they needed help. Not once did I see the enemy Warwick gank them, nor did I see any obvious reason for them to need the help, but they were pushed and they were negative.

I decided to go gank bot, but the enemy was Nidalee and Pantheon. I chased Nid and nearly killed her, but I didn’t dive her because I knew Pantheon was near. Sure enough at about mid lane, he jumped on me and ignited me. Here was where I saw the full extent of Shyv’s escape power as I ulted away and flashed. There was no way they could kill me from that far of a distance and Panth had burnt his stun, so there was no stopping me from flashing either.

Once the other team was fed I made some pretty good escapes by ulting over the walls, but I died twice. Once I died because my team didn’t have the damage or the focus to kill the enemy team’s carries, and the other time was due to me being somewhat out of position. Thinking back, if mid had warded I would have had enough time to of changed my course, but in this game, as with the other two, I was the only one warding, not just with wriggles either, I bought wards (and so should everyone else).

As a side note, my mid was Katarina, which isn’t the idea mid for Shyv. What I mean is, it’s better to have a mid that needs blue because Shyv doesn’t need it at all. I could have given blue to bot, but they didn’t want it.

I’m starting to think Shyv just doesn’t win games, or maybe I’m doing something wrong. In between my second and third Shyv game I played support as Soraka and we won. None of the players were particularly great but I made sure my carry lived and farmed up as much as possible.

Game Four

Outcome: Defeat
Date: 10/15/2012
Score: 3/2/7 KDA
Position: Jungler
End-game build: Ninja Tabi, Wriggle’s Lantern, Phage
Damage Done: 57,555
Damage Taken: 10,692


Thoughts on the game:

On average, I seem to be getting plenty of assist and in some cases kills. Score wise I’m doing pretty well in my opinion, especially for a jungler that likes to stay in the jungle most of the time. The fact still stands that I haven’t won a single game.

I keep the damage onto me because people are afraid of my burst, I take what damage I can, then I leave. My phage/ mallet is usually pretty effective CC considering that I usually get red buff as well, and flashes don’t work very often unless you’re really close to your turret.

I started wraiths again (I started wraiths last game too) and had a really good start. Went and got red, then I got golems, wolves, then gave Ziggs blue. I gave Ziggs every blue throughout the entire game and he still lost.

Pantheon lost top against 2 people. I warded more than the support... again. The ADC didn’t get enough farm to be viable in team fights.

Speaking of team fights, the comp didn’t have enough cc in my opinion. We had Graves, Shyvana, Taric, Pantheon, and Ziggs. In team fights I would focus their Ashe or Kayle as they were the squishiest and did the most damage, and that would get me focused. From there the enemy Ashe or kayle would die, but I wouldn’t be able to stop the rest of their team. It was also notably harder to escape due to the cc, but they had Kayle, Jax, and Ashe, so I went with the tabi.

Game Five

Outcome: Victory
Date: 10/15/2012
Score: 8/6/9 KDA
Position: Jungler
End-game build: Mercury Treads, Wriggle’s Lantern, Wit’s End, Frozen Mallet, Frozen Heart, Heart of Gold
Damage Done: 160,027
Damage Taken: 34,557


Thoughts on the game:

The game actually started off pretty bad, I had two deaths before I got any kills, and all my ganks consisted of was basically threatening the lanes. While this did alleviate pressure from the lanes, I don’t feel like I made as big of an impact.

Mid was pretty bad, wouldn’t take blue buff (as Ziggs), had to be saved multiple times, and in mid game helped push top despite his lane being taken. I had to cover for him for more than four minutes.

Once I got my first kill I was able to turn things around, I dragoned from behind the enemy team which pushed them closer to my adc, this is a risky move but I coordinated it over skype so he knew what I was doing. Because he was Graves, he exploited the short range extra damage and got a double kill. This let us clean up what was left of their team.

After that point it was pretty standard. We got baron, pushed the lanes, and won.

Other special things to note, I ended up with wit’s end and built it early because the other team’s magical threat was a bit high, and it worked really well with Shyv, adding to her damage and her magical defense.


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Lazreal

Senior Member

10-15-2012

wish i woulda done this for HECARIM, i have over 100 ranked games with him.


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SaucyPiglet

Junior Member

10-15-2012

tbh looking at your build its not really worth building FH on shy cause she can't really benefit from the mana. may aswell just go for randuin and try to get your top or if you have a leona/blitz/ali supp get the FH.


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SentinelOfPain

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Senior Member

10-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaucyPiglet View Post
tbh looking at your build its not really worth building FH on shy cause she can't really benefit from the mana. may aswell just go for randuin and try to get your top or if you have a leona/blitz/ali supp get the FH.
That's what I thought a loooooong time ago for other manaless characters, but I like the aura better than what Randuins has to offer. For tanks it makes people want to kill you more, and FH has a higher armor value. Rand is a good item and I'll build it against teams that aren't AA heavy, but against people like Tryndamere, Yi, Fiora, every ranged adc except for Ezreal, I would prefer FH.

Sadly, you are right about the mana component but for the "threat generation" I'm willing to pay the extra 400.


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Lazreal

Senior Member

10-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SentinelOfPain View Post
That's what I thought a loooooong time ago for other manaless characters, but I like the aura better than what Randuins has to offer. For tanks it makes people want to kill you more, and FH has a higher armor value. Rand is a good item and I'll build it against teams that aren't AA heavy, but against people like Tryndamere, Yi, Fiora, every ranged adc except for Ezreal, I would prefer FH.

Sadly, you are right about the mana component but for the "threat generation" I'm willing to pay the extra 400.
Against those picks, you want a THornmail actually.

Still getting a Raduins and an Aegis, is enough with ninja tabis,

I liked the 2x Tiamat build for shyvana, if you land it right, you can murder a whole team, with 2 Cleaves in Dragon Form.


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SentinelOfPain

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Senior Member

10-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazreal View Post
Against those picks, you want a THornmail actually.

Still getting a Raduins and an Aegis, is enough with ninja tabis,

I liked the 2x Tiamat build for shyvana, if you land it right, you can murder a whole team, with 2 Cleaves in Dragon Form.
If you get a thornmail against them, they will not attack you. Thornmail is a very overrated item.


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t0ad5

Senior Member

10-16-2012

Life as jungler by t0ad5 -

Team in unison: "Gank top, you suck", "WTF Gank Bot, you suck", "Why aren't you helping mid, you suck"
t0ad5: "I can't be everywhere!?!? You are losing all lanes....?"
Team: "You suck. l2p. WTF. Report no skill"


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mdiaz28

Senior Member

10-16-2012

Shyv is a great jungler. one of my favorites. You just have to remember jungling champs are situational. She works best on teams that already have stuns. If you don't have that i would recommend exhaust\smite. Flash isn't always necessary and since sHyv lacks any stun exhaust is great to secure ganks. Personally i like starting off armor and pots. Ur aoe provides movement speed so you can use that in lieu of boots. I like being able too
stay high health and able to gank early and starting in jungle. Other wise your build is fine except i also agree frozen heart is a little unnecessary. Cds aren't add important to shyv neither is mana so your only getting a aura and armor. Personally id say sunfire cape is what o generally use then randiuns but to be honest we generally win before that 6th slot


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Mogs01gt

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Senior Member

10-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SentinelOfPain View Post
That's what I thought a loooooong time ago for other manaless characters, but I like the aura better than what Randuins has to offer. For tanks it makes people want to kill you more, and FH has a higher armor value. Rand is a good item and I'll build it against teams that aren't AA heavy, but against people like Tryndamere, Yi, Fiora, every ranged adc except for Ezreal, I would prefer FH.
Sadly, you are right about the mana component but for the "threat generation" I'm willing to pay the extra 400.
FM is a bad item as a whole on champs that do not benefit from the mana. Armor+Health is the proper way of itemization on a champ who wants to tank damage.

Shy is a odd jungler and is too team dependent to carry a game in normals. On your builds, you need more attack speed sooner.Wits end should be one of your first fully built items after wriggles. HoG is an item you need before building phage.

If you get fully fed, MBR works awesome on shy and allows you to build Zeke's which is awesome on her. MBR +wits= dead everything!


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SentinelOfPain

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Senior Member

10-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogs01gt View Post
FM is a bad item as a whole on champs that do not benefit from the mana. Armor+Health is the proper way of itemization on a champ who wants to tank damage.

Shy is a odd jungler and is too team dependent to carry a game in normals. On your builds, you need more attack speed sooner.Wits end should be one of your first fully built items after wriggles. HoG is an item you need before building phage.

If you get fully fed, MBR works awesome on shy and allows you to build Zeke's which is awesome on her. MBR +wits= dead everything!
I want to thank everyone for their advice but I especially want to talk about this piece of advice.

In the games I've played after five I've been building Wits end more and generally before Frozen Mallet because I noticed a lot higher damage output with the attack speed.

I've also thought about getting HoG just because I'm a jungler and therefore don't get gold as fast as the lanes do, but I'm not 100% sure when to get it, probably after madred's claws.

I've also very much so wanted to test out MBR, but if I go boots, claws, boots 2, HoG, Wits, then MBR I feel like I won't have enough health to really do the job of a tank.

The recommendations I've been getting seem to want me to do more damage than anything else, I know I'm supposed to do some damage but whenever I've seen Shyvs play it always struck me that their role was to soak damage and initiate. That, and they're really good at doing just that.

Besides if I go with this and I build HoG after claws, I don't get as much benefit from the gp/5 factor. If I build HoG first, I have a slower jungle (but I guess that's ok because Shyv goes fast anyway).

I'm not sure about not taking flash though, I'll try it out and see how it goes but honestly everyone and their mother takes flash. If I don't have it I might be able to use W to catch up but all that time not attacking or getting that AoE damage on my target might make them get away. Still, grabbing exhaust is kind of a hard thing to pass up.

On the topic of FH and Randuins

I know Shyv doesn't benefit from CDR or mana, and I might just stop building it because of that, but I still feel that it makes a bigger impact on a match than Randuins.

The aura from FH is 1000 units, that's a pretty big aura, and it gimps the enemy team's main damage by a lot so long as I live.

Randuins doesn't have an aura, and you have to go out of your way to get people to attack you. But in its defense, it does have an active and that extra slow could be helpful. That active is the main reason I would get it over FH.

On a side note, I saw a recommendation for sunfires cape, and I actually like that item a lot. It makes people want you dead because of the extra AoE, and it gives health and armor. I'm not sure if I should build it often or when, but it's good in my opinion.

Thanks again for the advice everyone! I urge you to keep it up not only for my benefit but for anyone else reading.


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