Syndra Quality of Life/Useability changes

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Professor Tredo

Senior Member

10-13-2012

Bump for Syndra


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Cachexic

Member

10-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Hey folks,

Just wanted to let you know about some useability/quality of life changes we're currently testing for Syndra and also gather some feedback to see if there's anything else we might have missed that would it would be appropriate to bundle with them. We didn't get Syndra's state quite right on launch, both in terms of simple power and in terms of spell timings, which in retrospect left her abilities both harder to use/more delayed than was appropriate and light on the actual pay off when executed correctly. In the last balance patch we buffed the damage, range and/or mana cost on her skills so now we're looking at tweaking the performance on her abilities themselves (this sort of stuff takes longer to do, hence the changes being split into two patches).

The key changes we're currently testing are:

1. Making her Force of Will more responsive by increasing the speed at which Syndra pulls Dark Spheres/Minions to her to throw and by removing the spell slot cooldown imposed during the grab (instead replacing it with a check that allows the throw to occur as soon as the Sphere/Minion's been pulled to her though not before).

2. Improving the timing on the Sphere hit detection from Scatter the Weak to allow more natural Q followed immediately by E plays. This can currently be done but can be a bit unreliable at moderate Q ranges from Syndra where intuitively you'd expect the combo to work.

3. Fixing the cooldown check on the ultimate so that it doesn't go on cooldown without casting, whether because the target died mid animation or because spellshields are being checked for at start of cast, not at point of missile impact.

4. We're testing a small range increase on her ultimate. This is something we're really cautious about, given the ult's damage can be very high
and higher ranges tested during development were extremely powerful. Given other aspects of her kit were somewhat different then however there's value in rechecking a longer range again to see if the previous problems observed still hold true or not.

In addition we've also got a number of bug fixes in the works that should also improve Syndra's play experience, in particular a case where enemies hit by both Scatter the Weak and a knocked back Dark Sphere sometimes only getting knocked back, rather than knocked back and stunned as intended.

As usual since these are changes in testing they're not set in stone and release timing's not confirmed yet, though we should be talking sooner rather than later.
I feel as if she is already very powerful and that further changes would cause her to be a top tier pick as a solo mid.

In regards to any damage changes occurring to her, I think her damage is just perfect the way it is now

Thanks!


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Diskings

Senior Member

10-13-2012

The biggest QoL that came to my mind while playing her was having her W (Force of Will) more responsive. It just felt very very clunky, both in terms of grabbing the minion, carrying it, and throwing it.

It doesn't need to drag behind her, just when she grabs it, have it set to always be at a specific part of her (even hovering above her head would be fine). This will fix the 'carrying' and in turn the 'throwing' aspect of it, because then it will always launch from a certain location, and can follow a nicer trajectory.

The problem with her throw is that it seems very clunky, it seems to go very high, and crash down in a very weird manner. It has a crazy high arc and weird acceleration times.

What would be cooler is having the minion above her head and having it crash down from the sky with serious impact (as if expelled from the heavens with force). It would just make landing the skill feel significantly more rewarding, and would fix the clunkiness of it.

Aside from that, these QoL changes sound like they will put Syndra into a good spot (provided her ult isn't OP in regards to an increase range).

Please take these into consideration as I feel it would GREATLY help Syndra's playstyle.


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ManiacsMayhem

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Senior Member

10-13-2012

Just an idea instead of having scatter the weak knock orbs, what if you you made thinned ad increased the range of scatter the weak into an aoe the size of mords siphon ability reduce the damage a bit since it would be easier to land. then make the stun work this way...

If force of will and/or dark sphere hits an enemy it marks them, if syndra then uses the scatter the weak aoe while they are marked, then they stunned.

would allow for the flow type feel syndra lacks and also improve her kit. If you did this you could probably also not have to increase her utls range. Because she would have an ability with good, consistent aoe damage.

JUst an idea what you guys think?


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Lunaria

Senior Member

10-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redhash View Post
After looking at the mana costs people have posted here I can really see just how bad it is.

Comparison for Q:
Ziggs: 90 mana rank 5 (CD 4 seconds rank 5; only spell in this list with a higher mana cost)
Syndra: 80 mana rank 5 (CD 4 seconds)
*Galio: 80 mana rank 5 (CD 7 seconds; twice as much as Syndra's orbs but with the same mana cost)
Cassiopeia: 75 mana rank 5 (CD 3 seconds) SPECIAL NOTE: Cassiopeia's passive reduces mana costs by 10% per stack.
*Diana: 55 mana flat (CD 6 seconds rank 5; has a lower mana cost despite the higher cool down than Syndra Q)
Orianna: 50 mana flat (CD 3 seconds rank 5)

*Orianna, Ziggs, and Cassio were used as comparisons of similar spells, whereas Galio and Diana's Q were added as special circumstances (higher CD but same or lower mana cost)

Would it really add too much to Syndra's power if her Q's had a lower mana cost and possibly an extra function ?
I only mention adding an extra passive for Q because Syndra doesn't have a passive pre level 9.
Dark sphere's could do something extra like giving Syndra more armor and MR per ball out, reducing mana costs for every ball that hits a champion (similar to Cassio but only if it hits champions), reducing the cooldown of Q everytime it hits a champion, or increasing Syndra's movespeed per ball out. These are obviously just ideas on the fly, but they're good suggestions for offsetting the cons of having any balls out frequently with the mana cost they have now.
The only ones that really should be compared to her Q are orianna(just because it's needed for her other skills), cassiopeia, and Karthus. Since they are the most similar skills

for instance ziggs bombs are pretty much impossible to dodge when close but also have pretty extreme poke range on them as well or Galio's Q is far more damaging, longer range, and adds a pretty big slow and scales with AP and magic resist

But with the comparable skills

cassiopeia's Q: more damage until rank 5, longer range, lower cooldown, cheaper at all ranks, gives her a speed boost, get's cheaper to cast with repeated casting, and enables her massive burst skill
also worth noting her W is pretty much the same deal compared to syndra's W, just straight up better in every imaginable way and it also sets her up to combo Q and E

karthus' Q: more damaging until rank 5, longer range, much lower cooldown, much cheaper at all ranks, returns mana on kills
Also worth noting he has a gigantic massive slowing wall making it really easy to land Q's

orianna's Q: a bit lower damage but easier to land, longer range, lower cooldown at mid and high ranks, much lower cost, but the big deal unquantifiable part is it is persistent in the field to enable her other skills or further Q's and far more responsive

Another problem of note with syndra is her combos almost all require casting a dark sphere ahead of time just to fuel your W because the W is so incredibly slow and clunky.
You pretty much tell the opponent hey back off for a few seconds so that i just wasted like 150+ mana on this combo I won't be able to even start on you.
It's kind of weird actually all her combos are plain to see with things but sort of self defeating.
Like if you dark sphere so the sphere hits but lands on your side then scatter it through to get a stun you just shoved the sphere way the hell out of range to pick it up with W to land the slow which would have enabled you to land another Q or two
Or if you wanted to land the slow to start a combo first you'd be forced to drop a Q in a harmless spot just to pick it up or use a minion. Either way you just put on an unmissable light show that tells the opponent "just back off for a bit and this will all go to waste"


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Viktorious Alekt

Senior Member

10-13-2012

There is something about her ult. I call it the "progressive" damage. Because its multiple chuck of small damage, it's possible to hourglass through the middle of it.


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Lunaria

Senior Member

10-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alekt View Post
There is something about her ult. I call it the "progressive" damage. Because its multiple chuck of small damage, it's possible to hourglass through the middle of it.
i noticed that too playing morgana against her, you can react late to her ult and still block like 4/5 of it


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Gurei Fullbuster

Senior Member

10-13-2012

Personally, I just want to see a change of passive. Currently, her passive is basically non-existant--you might as well just say on each of her skills "gains ____ bonus effect when max rank" and say she's strong enough and doesn't need any passive. I think it would be cool if you made her passive increase the power of her other skills when a skill is maxed. As in, if she maxes Q, she gets bonus effects on W and E. (for example, maxing Q would increase W's damage and E's range, whereas maxing W would increase Q's range and E's damage) Obviously the effects of it could be whatever you deem appropriate, but I feel like this change would greatly vary her play style and skill builds as well as making her more fun to play.


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azealia banks

Member

10-14-2012

bump for limitless potential!


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Pi Griffin

Senior Member

10-14-2012

Ok spend all this time on Syndra to fix her. No love for Viktor ever coming.