Syndra Quality of Life/Useability changes

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azealia banks

Member

10-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grann Brigitte View Post
Syndra has some serious problems which are not adressed by QOL and number changes:

1. Her passive is a really poor design. It does nothing whatsoever until level 9, and at level 9 it provides a moderate damage boost to 1 spells (nobody would ever max the other spells first, because the rewards for those spells is so negligible that a player would likely never notice them (or even the Q upgrade) if not informed in writing. It also completely fails to impart flavor to Syndra- She's not some meditant, she isn't transcending anything or into anything, Syndra wants POWER.

2. Dark Spheres are all drawback. Pretty much all of Syndra's uniqueness comes from Dark Sphere manipulation, but in most cases even the best usage of Syndra's abilities is worse than easily used abilities in other AP's. Look at Orriana, for example: She gets a similar (but markedly better) Q and similar (but markedly better) W. Her Q even persistently scouts instead of only for a second. The Dark Sphere reliance ends up being 100% downside for most of her abilities; Making a sphere is most of her damage, but you need those spheres to apply her slow outside of lane, to stun enemies, and to empower her ult. This often means being forced to choose between hitting an enemy with q or setting up a stun with q. Getting both on a competent player is ludicrously difficult.

3. Her ultimate is both bland and weak. Single target nukes are horrible to balance, especially as an ultimate. Either the number is too high, and the ability is preposterously broken (see pre-nerf leblanc), or the number is too low, and the ultimate achieves nothing. At the moment, Syndra's ultimate damage is quite high, but it's range makes it very difficult to use it on champions that will not have high mitigation, and it's high cooldown demands that it is used correctly and even sparingly. The ultimate also clusters her spheres around the target, a factor that could be highly interesting but isn't (because spheres don't do much after they are made).

To this end, I would suggest:

Heavy modification of her passive in order to make it into something which ties the champion together instead of just random small bonuses. In this I see two routes: Upgrade the max rank bonus of Transcendence so that maxing an ability significantly changes her play, or replace it with an improved and more flavorful passive.

For the first option, I've had some ideas-

1. Dark Sphere: At maximum ranks, Dark Spheres will emit a pulse of damage 1 seconds after being created or being moved equal to 0.2 x the abilities normal damage

This makes so many of Syndras abilities so much more rewarding. Suddenly, you get bonus damage for Scattering orbs into just the right places, for leading Q's properly, and for ulting well- adding avoidable bonus damage to her ultimate makes it more punishing for bruisers who just want to wade into the thick of things, as opposed to a more mobile ranged. It also rewards you for targeting someone with nearby allies.

Alternatively:

At Max ranks, Dark Spheres will produce an entropic link between themselves and the nearest Dark Sphere. This link damages enemies which cross it.

This passive upgrade adds greater interest to her abilities which move spheres. By creating linked spheres and then moving them, Syndra can force enemies to take damage from the links using W and E to change their orientation, and her ultimate creates a dense cluster of links which is hazardous to walk through.

2. At Max rank, Force of Will's cooldown is reduced by 2 seconds for every enemy champion damaged by it.

Force of Will is very, very difficult to hit with. This passive rewards players for doing it well, rather than amplifying it's effects minutely when it does hit

or

Force of will's range becomes bounded only by visible Dark Sphere's

This makes the ability have greater potential to "catch" an enemy (something the current Force of Will has huge problems with),and rewards players for good sphere placement.

3.At max rank, Scatter the weak increases Scattered orb stun detection by a 200 radius, and the spell width by 50%.

This passive not only makes the orb stun far more usable, but is actually strong enough that a Syndra player might consider building differently to get it earlier.

or

Scatter the weak becomes cooldownless, instead becoming based on 2 periodically refreshing charges. Multiple Scatter the weak's cast in the same 5 seconds do reduced damage.

This gives Syndra the option to potentially use the ability both offensively and defensively in the same engagement, or to aim orb stuns in multiple directions.


But, if we wanted to give her a cool new passive altogether, I like:

Power-Mad: When Syndra deals damage to an enemy champion with any of her abilities, she gains a fixed percentage/ flat amount of ability power scaling with level for a short period (10 seconds?).

This passive heavily rewards players for landing their skillshots, and further enforces Syndra's playstyle of building damage with Q and W then dropping a cataclysmically large ult on someone.

This passive would give Syndra a unique form of damage scaling to supplement her unreliable utility abilities, and do so much for preventing her from being constantly overshadowed by the slew of AP carries with both better damage and utility.

These passive changes adress problems 1 and 2, but not 3.

For syndra's ultimate to be ''better'', I feel it should have a very short cooldown (relatively speaking, as an ultimate a short cooldown is 15-30 seconds), and no base damage. It would scale exclusively with the number of orbs present. This change really ties the champion together; instead of having one big burst which is clunky and demanding to use, Syndra instead gets a potent and flexible tool for re-arranging her orbs that doesn't feel horribly wasteful to use on a resilient character.

If you read this, thanks! I really like the flavor, appearance, and playstyle of Syndra- I just want her to reach her full potential : )
oh sweet Jesus! Dear god, let a red read this! HIRE THIS PERSON!!


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shamurai7

Senior Member

10-12-2012

apparently most dont realize syndra has the lowest win rate in the game right now making her statistically the weakest champion in the game. she is at 39% with #2 being Khazix at 43%.

and sadly very few of the forum users excelent ideas get implemented....no matter how awesome. we have been trying to get Ashe a real passive for years now with a gazzilion excelent user suggestions.

and still she has the same useless passive.


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Impoliteminority

Senior Member

10-12-2012

I think syndra is fine the way she....with the exception of a bug she seems to have on her w.

Maybe this is caused by lag but, it seems like her w will just randomly whiff and not fire correctly when you activate this for a second time. I think this only happens when you try to use it too quick in the midst of a combo...which you can imagine is really goddamn frustrating.


Don't listen to anyone *****ing about her ult though. If you increased the range anymore she would be the safest champ ingame, hands down. How the hell would you even lane against her post 6? Answer? You wouldn't She would just Q>E>W>R and kill you with literally no risk at all.


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Grann Brigitte

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Impoliteminority View Post
I think syndra is fine the way she....with the exception of a bug she seems to have on her w.

Maybe this is caused by lag but, it seems like her w will just randomly whiff and not fire correctly when you activate this for a second time. I think this only happens when you try to use it too quick in the midst of a combo...which you can imagine is really goddamn frustrating.


Don't listen to anyone *****ing about her ult though. If you increased the range anymore she would be the safest champ ingame, hands down. How the hell would you even lane against her post 6? Answer? You wouldn't She would just Q>E>W>R and kill you with literally no risk at all.
Presumably, you would do what everyone does when confronted by this situation, which is dodging skillshots. You might as well just replace Syndra with Lux or Cassiopeia or Gragas or any of the slew of AP carries which can easily kill you in lane from a distance. This is balanced, of course, by inbuilt counterplay (avoiding their attacks). And Syndras attacks are oh-so easy to avoid; that was what this entire thread started as being about!


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Flaming June

Senior Member

10-12-2012

thank you based ziggs guy


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DeanKeaton259

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Senior Member

10-12-2012

You really need to increase the range on the ultimate. That I can agree with 100%. Her ult does not feel good at all right now. The current range is just way too short. Enemies always escape in fights and I feel like more than half the time I can't even get it off during a fight because the range is so short.

I also agree that throwing the minion takes way too long. The delay with this ability should definitely be removed.


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Calderweiss

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Anyone like the idea of her getting move speed and an armour/mag res buff when she lands dark sphere? Or at least a higher move speed? Maybe 50-100 more range on ultimate. And fix that w bug. Also (different matter. Fix viktors e bug where it turns invisible...)


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Grann Brigitte

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Calderweiss View Post
Anyone like the idea of her getting move speed and an armour/mag res buff when she lands dark sphere? Or at least a higher move speed? Maybe 50-100 more range on ultimate. And fix that w bug. Also (different matter. Fix viktors e bug where it turns invisible...)
If she got move speed on hit, she would just be Cassiopeia. Defenses on hit don't even synergize with her.


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NakedGranny

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Senior Member

10-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by drzombieface View Post
I decided to not refund Syndra a while back. I knew things would be done to help her.

Make me proud. She can be so much more.
She can eventually be as good as Malzahar, and we all know what a popular and overpowered beast he is compared to the high-mobility, high-CC game right now...

right?


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Tobasco da Gama

Senior Member

10-12-2012

So, I only really played Syndra during her free week, but I felt like she's really, really close to being a cool, viable champ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
1. Making her Force of Will more responsive by increasing the speed at which Syndra pulls Dark Spheres/Minions to her to throw and by removing the spell slot cooldown imposed during the grab (instead replacing it with a check that allows the throw to occur as soon as the Sphere/Minion's been pulled to her though not before).
Anything that makes this easier to hit with is good, especially after the range buff.

Quote:
2. Improving the timing on the Sphere hit detection from Scatter the Weak to allow more natural Q followed immediately by E plays. This can currently be done but can be a bit unreliable at moderate Q ranges from Syndra where intuitively you'd expect the combo to work.
Yes, this. I think this is the number one thing people want, in addition to the bugfix you mentioned below. Q->E is her most powerful combo, but right now it's a tricky skillshot that's also really flaky. Being able to nail this reliably will make Syndra a lot more viable.

Quote:
3. Fixing the cooldown check on the ultimate so that it doesn't go on cooldown without casting, whether because the target died mid animation or because spellshields are being checked for at start of cast, not at point of missile impact.
I hadn't noticed this while playing with Syndra, but I agree that should help. Nobody likes a wasted ult!

Quote:
4. We're testing a small range increase on her ultimate. This is something we're really cautious about, given the ult's damage can be very high
and higher ranges tested during development were extremely powerful. Given other aspects of her kit were somewhat different then however there's value in rechecking a longer range again to see if the previous problems observed still hold true or not.
More range in general will help Syndra a lot. I feel like her last set of buffs was a good improvement in that regard, but she does still have problems chasing enemy champs down sometimes. Extra range will help there.

Quote:
In addition we've also got a number of bug fixes in the works that should also improve Syndra's play experience, in particular a case where enemies hit by both Scatter the Weak and a knocked back Dark Sphere sometimes only getting knocked back, rather than knocked back and stunned as intended.
Yeah, this is the big thing everyone wants for Syndra. Massive improvement, if you can get this working.