Potentially GAMEBREAKING issue which needs SERIOUS consideration... WARNING: MATHS!

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SixMinutesLate

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Senior Member

10-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eiales View Post
While he does have a hard time jumping on top of someone, mobility is as much about being impossible to escape as it is about catching someone or running away.
His E and R are also gap-closers, though with a fairly short range.

Edit: If this title was an improvement, I'd like to see the original "misleading" one...
I do agree that Darius is difficult to escape once you start fighting him, but so is Anivia. Darius is vulnerable to CC and harassment while closing in on someone, and his E has a short range and a cast time. The kind of mobility that the OP is talking about, that has historically caused balance issues in League, is initiation and disengaging, of which Darius has neither.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

10-14-2012

Roles who really need a gap closer (melees only):
- Assassins; should be the champs with the best cap closer skills
- ADC (Yi, Trynda, Fiora); they normally need a gap closer, high MS and an MS boost or slow to stick to their targets and should be the champs with the highest mobility through MS

Bruisers normally need some kind of moblity or ability to get close to an enemy (MS boost, gap closer, hook), but cause they have a higher survivability, they don't need to be there as fast as Assassins. At the same time they don't need the same sticky power that melee ADCs need, so they don't need as hard MS boosts (and cause they normally have better CCs).

All other roles would actually be ok with only some MS.
I see why Vayne, Wukong and others have such gap closers and i think the effect is ok. But the CD is often pretty low.

Melee bruisers with gap clsoers: 8-12 sec CD when maxed and 600-650 range
Too low CDs late game: Irelia (6 sec; 650 range), Jax (6 sec; 700 range)

Ranged (normally ADC) with gap closers: 14 sec CD when maxed and 500-600 range.
Too low CDs late game: Ez (11 sec; 475 range)
Too high range: Corki (14 sec; 800 range) i know his CD got nerfed early, but his his esacpe range is too high (700 should be the limit)

You can go and try the same with MS buffs.


What I want to say with that is:
I don't see a problem that a lot of champs have such abilities (ok, there are maybe a bit too much), but that these abilities are also really strong. They deal a lot of dmg, have low CDs and other special effects.

Nerf Grave's range from 425 to 400 and Ez's from 475 to 450 (+ CD increase from 11 to 14 when maxed) and there would be significant less QQ about their mobility.
I like how Varus and Draven actually have no dashes and blinks, but a high base MS or a short steroid.

So what can Riot do?
1. Rethink the mobiltiy of new champs (unreleased ones)
2. Reduce range and increase CD of some older mobility skills (Top lane champs will get nerfed, so why not try and increase the CD on some gap closers?)

3. normalize the MS overall
The last point os something the OP talks about (increasing the DR for MS).
I would pick a bit different numbers: currently 415 by 20% and 490 by 50% (60 MS instead of 75 MS and then only 50% of the rest)
410 by 20%, over 450 by 40%, over 490 by 60% (32 isntead of 40, 24 instead of 40, then only 40% of the rest). That means 4 MS less and a more early DR
(400, 440, 480 would also be possible, but i think it would be too much)
OR
415 by 25%, 475 by 50% (45 instead of 60 and then only 50% of the rest)
But Riot can also increase the MS of some older champs that got too weak cause they have not the range and mobility advantage other champs have. I talk mainly about Annie here. A low range champ with only a decent defensive mechanic and no escape.


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Danage

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10-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyltin View Post
Roles who really need a gap closer (melees only)...
You have a very valid point and will include it on my first post as acknowledgement of a well thought out post with viable suggestions...


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Xyltin

Senior Member

10-15-2012

I always though why does Irelias gap closer has so much power stuffed into it?
Low CD gap closer with low mana costs and mana get back for last hits. Also a low CD (later) and a good amount of dmg. Procs on hit effects.

GP: 2 slows to get into range and an MS boost.
Yi: magic dmg on an ADC. High CD, high mana costs, long animation.


I can understan it for Noc and Ahri. Both use their ults.

Most old mobility skills didn't dealt much dmg or they didn't scale with the main stats. They had a low amount of extra effects.
Now a gap closer is a nearly full dmg skill that scales and gives some bonus effects.

I actually like the implementation of Caits E.
It is a slow with some dmg and a mobility skill.
But it does only scale with AP, it gives only a small offensive advantage (no dmg and and slow or dmg and slow, but you get further away from the target). Main usage is the defensive way, where you get all 3 parts.

Same with Garen's and Vayne's mobility skills.
Garen needs to hit something so that the CD starts more early. He can get slowed after activating it.
Vayne gets only a small amount of mobility per use, and like Garen she has to hit something to start the CD more early. Vayne also (like Riven) has no high instant mobility where you click and BÄM 700 range.
Both skills very good in an offensive way, but not that strong when used defensive.


I don't say that Riot has to nerf these overloaded gap closer on all champs. But if they have the time, they should look if they can swap some strength away from these skills into other things (or if the champ still really needs this strength).


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Danage

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10-15-2012

Yes, they can be very strong...


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Quenton

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10-15-2012

bump


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Danage

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10-15-2012

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KSOAR

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10-15-2012

QQ


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Danage

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10-16-2012

bump


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Jestacer

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10-16-2012

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