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Potentially GAMEBREAKING issue which needs SERIOUS consideration... WARNING: MATHS!

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Danage

Senior Member

10-10-2012

**This is a LONG post, so please read before downvoting, or don't vote at all...**

Introduction: Movement Creep.
As you all know, there is a thing called "power creep". In short, this is the gradual unbalancing of a game due to successive releases of new content leading to more powerful newer champs as opposed to weaker older champs. Luckily, League of Legends is NOT subject to this as most champions are power balanced.

However, there is a NEW type of creep which is being introduced... "Movement creep". I am noticing that more and more champions are having either movespeed or gapclosers regardless of whatever their role is on the team. This does NOT include stuns, slows and/or slows on other players and solely relates to the movement speed/gap closing abilities of the champion.

**This post also does not speculate on how useful the ability is. Nor does it discuss how much damage the ability does. It also doesn't discuss whether a champion is overpowered or underpowered. This is purely a statistical model for consideration. If I have made any errors, please let me know**

This is a second thread as the first one had a misleading title:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2658089


Champions with gap closers/movespeed increases.
Lets look at the last 40 releases:

Kha'Zix, Syndra, Rengar, Diana, Zyra, Jayce, Draven, Darius, Varus, Hecarim, Lulu, Fiora, Nautilus, Ziggs*, Sejuani, Viktor**, Ahri, Volibear, Fizz, Shyvana, Graves, Xerath, Riven, Talon, Skarner, Wukong, Leona, Yorick, Orianna, Vayne, Rumble, Brand, Lee Sin, Nocturne, Jarvan IV, Maokai, Karma, Renekton, Caitlyn, Cassiopeia

So that is 4 out of 40 releases (or 10%) where the champions don't have either a movespeed increase OR a gap closer. (Or 90% of champs which do have an increase)

Now lets look at the original 40 champions...

Shaco, Heimerdinger, Nasus, Corki, Katarina, Malphite, Dr. Mundo, Blitzcrank, Janna***, Taric, Gangplank, Kassadin, Veigar, Rammus, Anivia, Cho'Gath, Amumu, Karthus, Tryndamere, Twitch, Evelynn, Zilean, Singed, Ryze, Sion, Sivir, Soraka, Nunu, Morgana, Master Yi, Kayle, Jax, Fiddlesticks, Ashe, Annie, Alistar, Warwick, Teemo, Tristana, Twisted Fate

That is 12 out of 40 releases (or 30%) where there is no gap closer or movespeed. (Or only 70% of champs which do have an increase)

*Ziggs has satchel charge, which is technically a gap closer.
**Although Viktor does have a movespeed increase with his Q, it requires him to buy the associated item. This item, however, is unique to him and is part of his ability kit.
***Janna has a passive movespeed increase only and not a movespeed steroid/gap closer

Champions with only Ultimate buffs:
Now, of those in the latest 40 releases, only TWO of the champions have their movespeed increases/gap closers linked with their ultimate ability (and therefore, generally on a longer cooldown). These are:

Diana, Ahri

However, Diana's ultimate is on a very short cooldown with regards to ultimates AND also refreshes on moonlight consumption. But in the interest of consistency, I am leaving it in this group.

So that is 85% of champs with a NON-ULTIMATE ability with an increase.

Lets look at the original 40 champions. Of those, SEVEN of the champions have their movespeed increases/gap closers linked with their ultimate ability (and therefore, generally on a longer cooldown). These are:

Dr. Mundo, Kassadin, Ryze, Singed, Sivir, Fiddlesticks, Twisted Fate

Again, Kassadin's ultimate is on a very short cooldown with regards to ultimates, but remains in the group for consistency.

So that is 52.5% of champs with a NON-ULTIMATE ability with an increase.

Utility versus Damage:
I have broken up the components of the movespeed increase/gap closer as either DIRECT damage (using the ability deals direct damage to the target{s}), INDIRECT damage (requires some other condition for damage, such as attack speed bonus) and UTILITY only (has no damage associated with it at all).

Of the latest champions:
Kha'Zix, Syndra, Rengar, Diana, Zyra, Jayce, Draven, Darius, Varus, Hecarim, Lulu, Fiora, Nautilus, Ziggs, Sejuani, Viktor, Ahri, Volibear, Fizz, Shyvana, Graves, Xerath, Riven, Talon, Skarner, Wukong, Leona, Yorick, Orianna, Vayne, Rumble, Brand, Lee Sin, Nocturne, Jarvan IV, Maokai, Karma, Renekton, Caitlyn, Cassiopeia

29 direct (72.5% of the 40)
5 indirect (12.5% of the 40)
2 utility (5% of the 40)

That is 34 of the 40 champions (85%) having a damaging ability which also increases movespeed and/or is a gap closer.

Of the original 40:
Shaco, Heimerdinger, Nasus, Corki, Katarina, Malphite, Dr. Mundo, Blitzcrank, Janna*, Taric, Gangplank, Kassadin, Veigar, Rammus, Anivia, Cho'Gath, Amumu, Karthus, Tryndamere, Twitch, Evelynn, Zilean, Singed, Ryze, Sion, Sivir, Soraka, Nunu, Morgana, Master Yi, Kayle, Jax, Fiddlesticks, Ashe, Annie, Alistar, Warwick, Teemo, Tristana, Twisted Fate

*Janna is utility only, since her ability to use the damage component actually REMOVES her bonus movespeed.

13 direct (32.5% of the 40)
8 indirect (20% of the 40)
7 utility only (17.5% of the 40)

That is 21 of the 40 champions (52.5%) having a damaging ability which also increases movespeed and/or is a gap closer.

Why is it an issue??
The issue is that without a gap closer or steroid, it means that there are normally others who do their job better. Why play Sion when you could play Rengar or Riven for a better bruiser? Why play Cho'Gath, when you could play Leona or Nautilus for those initiations? Want to play Annie, but Ahri or Orianna has better mobility... Let's play Ashe, nope, Jayce or Draven has a better presence.

And so without that movement ability, it becomes difficult to buff them. Do we just up the numbers on them?? That doesn't solve the problem, and it actually creates new problems. Do we just give them an ability which has movement in it?? Sure, but it would be very time consuming and would also create more problems, while solving issues for only that individual champion.

The other issue is that having a gap closer/movespeed ability means that you are able to punish low health champions for running away and/or avoid punishment for being caught out of position. Therefore, it doesn't come down to player skill, it comes down to champion design.

For example, Annie, Nasus, Taric, etc are out of position and are caught by 2 or three enemy players. What do they do?
Try and fight back? Outnumbered...
Try and run? No steroid...
Die? This normally happens.

Lets take a look at some of the newer champions. Jayce, Diana, Kha'Zix and Hecarim. What do they do?
Try and fight back? Outnumbered...
Try and run? Sure!
Die? Nope, I've escaped.

Similarly, this also goes for chasing a low health champion. If you have just got an opponent down to 5% health and he starts to run, newer champions have a way to chase and kill that opponent. Whereas older champions tend to not have that steroid, and so the enemy escapes.

It's not just a problem when 1v1 or 2v2, the problem also happens in full teamfights. It is easier to get into a better position or move around the area where the fight is if you have a gap closer or movespeed steroid.

Overall, it is just frustrating playing that champion without that gap closer/movespeed ability.

Possible solution??
There is one possible and (relatively easy) solution... Diminishing returns. Although it is already in place, the returns should be increased further. At the moment, any extra movespeed over 415 is reduced by 20%, anything over 490 by 50%. I think this should become over 400 by 25%, over 450 by 40% and over 490 by 60%.

Even Master Yi (with the highest base 330 movespeed) and having Boots 2 (+70 movespeed) does not go over the 400 cap. Sure, his ult, masteries, runes and other items may take him over this 400 movespeed, but it is a good set point.

But why would these changes to movespeed diminishing returns be a good idea?? It's because it normalises champions. Think of it like a Bell curve. Instead of it currently being a very wide bell curve, these changes will narrow it down a little bit. So if you are faster than another champion, you will STILL be faster. However, because you have been pulled back towards the average, you will not be TOO fast.

Another possibility (this one would require a lot more effort though) could be to make non-ultimate gap closers not affected by CDR. This would also solve a bit of the problem, but require a LOT more effort and work.

NOTE: Solutions were not the focus of the thread, facilitating discussion and making people aware of movement creep was the aim.

EDIT 1: This comes from a post by Xyltin and full credit goes to him/her (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=30241357):

Quote:
Xyltin:
Roles who really need a gap closer (melees only):
- Assassins; should be the champs with the best cap closer skills
- ADC (Yi, Trynda, Fiora); they normally need a gap closer, high MS and an MS boost or slow to stick to their targets and should be the champs with the highest mobility through MS

All other roles would actually be ok with only some MS.
I see why Vayne, Wukong and others have such gap closers and i think the effect is ok. But the CD is often pretty low.

Melee bruisers with gap clsoers: 8-12 sec CD when maxed and 600-650 range
Too low CDs late game: Irelia (6 sec; 650 range), Jax (6 sec; 700 range)

Ranged (normally ADC) with gap closers: 14 sec CD when maxed and 500-600 range.
Too low CDs late game: Ez (11 sec; 475 range)
Too high range: Corki (14 sec; 800 range) i know his CD got nerfed early, but his his esacpe range is too high (700 should be the limit)

You can go and try the same with MS buffs.

What I want to say with that is:
I don't see a problem that a lot of champs have such abilities (ok, there are maybe a bit too much), but that these abilities are also really strong. They deal a lot of dmg, have low CDs and other special effects.

Nerf Grave's range from 425 to 400 and Ez's from 475 to 450 (+ CD increase from 11 to 14 when maxed) and there would be significant less QQ about their mobility.
I like how Varus and Draven actually have no dashes and blinks, but a high base MS or a short steroid.

So what can Riot do?
1. Rethink the mobiltiy of new champs (unreleased ones)
2. Reduce range and increase CD of some older mobility skills (Top lane champs will get nerfed, so why not try and increase the CD on some gap closers?)

3. normalize the MS overall
The last point os something the OP talks about (increasing the DR for MS).
I would pick a bit different numbers: currently 415 by 20% and 490 by 50% (60 MS instead of 75 MS and then only 50% of the rest)
410 by 20%, over 450 by 40%, over 490 by 60% (32 isntead of 40, 24 instead of 40, then only 40% of the rest). That means 4 MS less and a more early DR
(400, 440, 480 would also be possible, but i think it would be too much)
OR
415 by 25%, 475 by 50% (45 instead of 60 and then only 50% of the rest)
But Riot can also increase the MS of some older champs that got too weak cause they have not the range and mobility advantage other champs have. I talk mainly about Annie here. A low range champ with only a decent defensive mechanic and no escape.


In conclusion:
Of the latest 40 champions, 36 (90%) of them have a gap closer and/or movespeed increase and 97% (or 35 of the 36) of these champs are associated with a damaging component. Compared with only 28 champs (70%) of the original 40 champions.with only 75% (or 21 of the 28) of these having a damaging component.

Therefore, if you are playing an older champion, and getting frustrated with being kited/escaping enemies, this is probably the reason why.


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wesome

Senior Member

10-10-2012

You've already posted this


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Formina Sage

Senior Member

10-10-2012

I gave you a +1 for a well thought out argument about "movement creep" being an issue. However, increasing diminishing returns on movespeed is NOT the way to approach solving the problem. That does not affect champions with direct displacement abilities. A change of direction with regard to design is really the only solution.


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Rysan Marquise

Senior Member

10-10-2012

I find your solution poor.

It is too late to say its needs consideration. It needed consideration more than a year ago. Now it just needs acceptance.


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hypnotic13371337

Senior Member

10-10-2012

shaco has a gapcloser....


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Formina Sage

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
hypnotic13371337:
shaco has a gapcloser....


and was listed as having one...


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Layorz

Senior Member

10-10-2012

I feel like you are not doing yourself justice by excluding some champs. I was kind of surprised to see Shen isn't mentioned anywhere. I know you specifically used the first and last 40 champs released, but that's not really a fair representation to just drop out 20 or so champs "because".


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Shiki Ryougi

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Eve is not one of the original 40. Not anymore. Same for Ryze and Jax on there. Jax kept his leap, but Evelynn's movement speed used to be tied to her ultimate. You should make note of remake situations.


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butseps

Member

10-10-2012

Gap closers are fun. Balance is holistic. (Have I covered everything?)


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Danage

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Rysan Marquise:
I find your solution poor.

It is too late to say its needs consideration. It needed consideration more than a year ago. Now it just needs acceptance.


I know... that's why i included a note saying "Solutions were not the focus of the thread, facilitating discussion and making people aware of movement creep was the aim."