World Playoffs - Rule Violations

First Riot Post
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Steveopotamus

Member

10-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly Exotica View Post
It appears that you are the one who cannot read. Right in bitingpig's post it clearly states that Dyrus and Chaox both violated the rules. Riot posted their competition rules right here, in this thread, for everyone to see. They posted what the penalty would be for such an infraction as that which Azubu Frost received, right in this thread. Everything you need to see is right there. TSM violated the rules, just as Azubu Frost did, just as Taipei Assassins, World Elites, and Invictus Gaming did. All of them violated the rules. Azubu Frost violated them in a serious manner, unlike any of the other four. However, Riot ALSO posted what the punishment would be for the quality of infraction each team committed via their own rules of the tournament. Did Azubu deserve to be penalized? ABSOLUTELY. They cheated. Did Riot post what their punishment is? Absolutely. So why is it that "people like you" cannot accept Riot's judgment on what the punishment should be?

You also seem to be unable to read, as Riot's very own bitingpig stated very clearly that Dyrus did, in fact, cheat. The difference between Dyrus' cheating and Woong's cheating is the fact that Azubu gained an advantage from their cheating, whereas TSM did not. That is literally the only difference. I have seen quite a number of posts insinuating that it does not matter whether it was Azubu Frost that cheated or that TSM was the losing team of the set in which they did it, it only matters that a team was caught cheating. Well, if catching a team cheating is all that matters, every single team that cheated (aka looked at the screen) should be disqualified. Why does it matter that a team gained an advantage or not if cheating is cheating? If you are going to try and say that only AZF should be disqualified, then it is clearly discriminatory against them because of spite at TSM's loss of the set during the match in which the cheating by AZF took place. WE determined a champion's position during their match with CLG.eu, IG determined where Ocelote wasn't during their game with SK. Dyrus looked at the minimap on purpose to determine if it was visible during a pause, which is illegal. I have not even once implied that AZF should not have been punished. I have only implied that if you are going to call for one team's head for cheating, then you should call for all four teams that cheated to be disqualified.

And, since you again accused me of an inability to read, allow me to point out that I never once said anything about anyone being a crybaby or a TSM fanboy. I also laugh that you tell me to be more objective when I am only calling out people for singling out Azubu Frost when they are not the only team that cheated. That is called being totally objective, which everyone else seems to be lacking in objectivity. I think you seriously do not know how to read nowadays.
You acknowledge in your own post that there is a distinction between AZF and other teams' infractions based on the quality of the infraction. Therefore, it is not categorically imperative that all 4 teams receive the same punishment (i.e. disqualification). Now, if the quality of the infraction was the same for all rule infractions, then it would necessarily follow that as a matter of equality the punishment meted out must be the same. But the fact that many people are calling for a D/Q of the one team that reaped the most benefits from their unsportsmanlike behavior does not logically imply that all infractions should be treated exactly the same. We have the capacity to understand levels of distinction. Imagine if our criminal justice system operated the way you are suggesting: Murderers and petty thieves would be treated the exact same. How is justice achieved in this regard?

Secondly, and this is primarily a point of clarification, but there is a distinction between TSM's infraction and the other teams (excluding TPA) infractions in that Riot stated that Chaox' infraction was not unsportsmanlike behavior. While Riot never states that Dyrus' infraction constituted unsportsmanlike conduct, in their analysis they acknowledge the reason as to why Dyrus looked towards the monitors. He looked to determine the feasibility of cheating. This is all to say that different levels of infractions can be treated differently, and it is myopic to suggest otherwise.


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Silge

Member

10-11-2012

Absolutely pitiful that you allowed them to stay in the tournament.

I will not be watching again.


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oil lord

Member

10-11-2012

I think that there should be a way for TSM and AZF to have a rematch. Or fix the positioning of the stage.


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EnderForHegemon

Senior Member

10-11-2012

I admit that I don't understand why Riot is awarding penalties to AZF for "unsportsmanlike Behavior" and not for "Dirty Scumbag Cheating After Being Warned Not To Do It" which was the fact of the case. I feel like if AZF had been punished according to what they actually did, they would have (should be) disqualified. You have like, four days to fix this Riot, before the event loses all hope of salvaging. Clock is ticking


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S9n9rgY

Senior Member

10-11-2012

This really undermines having rules if Riot is going to try and rationalize the impact and then fine.

Both TSM and Frost looked, Frost gets a fine because 'they were smart enough to find out what was up when they looked' while TSM looked and couldnt make heads or tails.... At the end of the day both sides broke the same rule and gained intel, both side need to be fined, because they broke the same exact rule.

For Riot to fine all but the NA team, that constantly cried foul, but broke the same rule, appears bigoted and undermines the S2 Finals. Riot should strive to make rule enforcement consistent and level. The degree of analysis Riot took only further undermines the rules since according the the rules cheating is cheating, if one team is good enough to capitalize off it is irrelevant.


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ppzcgg

Junior Member

10-11-2012

good job riot! its worth give up 20% get easy 80%. such a good deal!


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facetious

Senior Member

10-11-2012

At first, I saw the "tl;dr" and thought "That's like 20 lines long, there's no way that qualifies for a tl;dr". Then I saw it was a "tl;dr" summarizing the information in the following four long posts.

Thanks for "tl;dr".


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EnderForHegemon

Senior Member

10-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by S9n9rgY View Post
This really undermines having rules if Riot is going to try and rationalize the impact and then fine.

Both TSM and Frost looked, Frost gets a fine because 'they were smart enough to find out what was up when they looked' while TSM looked and couldnt make heads or tails.... At the end of the day both sides broke the same rule and gained intel, both side need to be fined, because they broke the same exact rule.

For Riot to fine all but the NA team, that constantly cried foul, but broke the same rule, appears bigoted and undermines the S2 Finals. Riot should strive to make rule enforcement consistent and level. The degree of analysis Riot took only further undermines the rules since according the the rules cheating is cheating, if one team is good enough to capitalize off it is irrelevant.
game was over when Dyrus looked. there was no intel to be gained. Chaox did not look at the minimap. Factcheck please.


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Aetherion1234567

Senior Member

10-11-2012

Thank you, Riot, for continuing to find the right balance of disclosure in your professional handlings of everything.


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Bboybyung

Junior Member

10-11-2012

Easy solution to this problem would be to host this event in Korea with ongame.net who have a decade of experience in esports including Starcraft and Special Force. Also funny thing to note. The rules for Korean regional was much more stricter than the championship itself. If anyone saw one of clg.eu left game before the game ended. Riot doesn't do anything. During Korean regional same thing happened in one of the matches. Referee immediately comes out and makes announcement to the audience that in the following match, the team that left game early will lose 1 of 3 bans for next match. Also, if there is any pause that happens, ongame.net will always have referee come up and announce the reason for pause and the changes that they have made. Also with regards to cheating and how it was handled in comparison to MLG is still no where close to where ongame.net took it. Before, there was an incident where one of player got caught in match fixing. Ongame.net's reaction? Immediate ban of the player, strip him of all titles and records he made and further investigate and when all was said and done, 5-6 players were permanently banned from esports and had all their records and achievements nullified. In terms of decision that ongame.net would've made to AF? They would make the tournament in such a way that they wouldn't have to make that sort of decision in the first place which they have done for a decade. NA esports scene still has a long way to go before it catches up to Korean scene but I wouldn't blame Riot so much since a lot of problems they're having have happened in early Korean esports scene and they have grown from it. I am confident that riot can do it too.

On finals note, Korean forums are accepting cheating and AF should disqualify themselves if Riot doesn't do so and once they're back in the country, kick Woong (the one who cheated as team captain) out of the team. Woong has been known for his bad manners and sportsmanship even before coming into World Championship and he is the only player in AF who had more anti fans as opposed to fans before coming into this tourney and now he will have more.

Sorry for bad english but in all sincerity, regardless of decision that Riot has made, what is more important is that they learn from this and prevent this type of event from happening in the future.