World Playoffs - Rule Violations

First Riot Post
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MyDeadGrandma

Senior Member

10-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by cAres View Post
I don't think you've ever played competition at a high level and what it feels like to you and your team when you know you just got cheated out of a win. I'll just leave it at that.
Two points:

-TSM violated the same rules; the key difference is they didn't benefit.
-They aren't in the same ballpark. Such a huge gap in metagaming, team coordination, and outright skill shouldn't exist in the semi finals of a world tournament, but it did. They could have played another 10 matches, and AZF would have still come out on top. I'd have bet an assload of money on it. We're talking Dream Team at the 1992 Olympics here.

To say TSM were cheated out of anything beyond an honorable defeat is beyond asinine.


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cAres

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Recruiter

10-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly Exotica View Post
That would be correct if they got cheated out of a win. They got cheated out of a chance at possibly getting an opportunity to take a very early lead in a game and try and make that snowball into a win. There isn't even a guarantee their invade would have done anything but secure the enemy red buff. Do not twist things into what they are not. It does not invalidate the cheating, but please do not say TSM was -going- to win that game like it is a fact.
You never know. It's all just speculations now. I say they would win with the early lead, you say they wouldn't. It doesn't matter at this point but what azf did is still cheating.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

10-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyDeadGrandma View Post
Two points:

-TSM violated the same rules; the key difference is they didn't benefit.
-They aren't in the same ballpark. Such a huge gap in metagaming, team coordination, and outright skill shouldn't exist in the semi finals of a world tournament, but it did. They could have played another 10 matches, and AZF would have still come out on top. I'd have bet an assload of money on it. We're talking Dream Team at the 1992 Olympics here.

To say TSM were cheated out of anything beyond an honorable defeat is beyond asinine.
The thing is, TSM did not deliberately violate rules for the express purpose of gaining an advantage over their competition.

In fact, they indicated the reason for the test was to determine if it was possible to cheat in that way, and they waited for a referee to state that the game had concluded.

That is basically the definition of "good faith".

Frost on the other hand secretly violated the rules for the direct purpose of gaining an advantage to win a game, during the game.

" TSM Chaox said that he had witnessed a member of AzF looking at the venue screens during the game. Referees didn’t independently corroborate these allegations.
TSM Dyrus looked back and up at the venue screens."


After the restart, Frost was caught with hard evidence looking at the enemy minimap.

Are people really saying they should disqualify TSM for both reporting cheating to the referees, and confirming the possibility of their reports at a time when the game wasn't even being played?

Read the timeline.


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IrrationalNoob

Senior Member

10-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly Exotica View Post
It appears that you are the one who cannot read. Right in bitingpig's post it clearly states that Dyrus and Chaox both violated the rules. Riot posted their competition rules right here, in this thread, for everyone to see. They posted what the penalty would be for such an infraction as that which Azubu Frost received, right in this thread. Everything you need to see is right there. TSM violated the rules, just as Azubu Frost did, just as Taipei Assassins, World Elites, and Invictus Gaming did. All of them violated the rules. Azubu Frost violated them in a serious manner, unlike any of the other four. However, Riot ALSO posted what the punishment would be for the quality of infraction each team committed via their own rules of the tournament. Did Azubu deserve to be penalized? ABSOLUTELY. They cheated. Did Riot post what their punishment is? Absolutely. So why is it that "people like you" cannot accept Riot's judgment on what the punishment should be?

You also seem to be unable to read, as Riot's very own bitingpig stated very clearly that Dyrus did, in fact, cheat. The difference between Dyrus' cheating and Woong's cheating is the fact that Azubu gained an advantage from their cheating, whereas TSM did not. That is literally the only difference. I have seen quite a number of posts insinuating that it does not matter whether it was Azubu Frost that cheated or that TSM was the losing team of the set in which they did it, it only matters that a team was caught cheating. Well, if catching a team cheating is all that matters, every single team that cheated (aka looked at the screen) should be disqualified. Why does it matter that a team gained an advantage or not if cheating is cheating? If you are going to try and say that only AZF should be disqualified, then it is clearly discriminatory against them because of spite at TSM's loss of the set during the match in which the cheating by AZF took place. WE determined a champion's position during their match with CLG.eu, IG determined where Ocelote wasn't during their game with SK. Dyrus looked at the minimap on purpose to determine if it was visible during a pause, which is illegal. I have not even once implied that AZF should not have been punished. I have only implied that if you are going to call for one team's head for cheating, then you should call for all four teams that cheated to be disqualified.

And, since you again accused me of an inability to read, allow me to point out that I never once said anything about anyone being a crybaby or a TSM fanboy. I also laugh that you tell me to be more objective when I am only calling out people for singling out Azubu Frost when they are not the only team that cheated. That is called being totally objective, which everyone else seems to be lacking in objectivity. I think you seriously do not know how to read nowadays.


Because it makes esports a joke. Which is sad.


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Retsopmi

Senior Member

10-11-2012

I love the whole "it's ok to cheat as long as it didn't make to big of an impact".

The AZF fine needs to GTFO. No reason to fine one team and not any of the other teams that did the SAME THING.

Did Riot hire the NFL replacement refs or something?


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pr0n0un

Senior Member

10-11-2012

What a joke.

Still in shock over Riot deciding to make minimaps visible to opponents.


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Killajoule

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Senior Member

10-11-2012

Even as an AZF fan, I am disappointed at Riot's decision to only leverage a fine of $30k for this incident as it obviously impacted game play.

While a fine needed to be levied, this rule infraction had an measurable impact in-game. I truly believe that the fine should have been greater than $30k, and that this game should have been restarted from 0-0 with the same picks/bans in order to preserve the integrity of this championship.

If AZF actually wins the grand prize (which I believe they would have either way), then the Riot community will never accept them as the true champions. With LoL being a developing eSport, teams need to know that Riot takes rule infractions seriously. This fine is a joke.


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NandRock

Member

10-11-2012

i will be happy only if they restart the whole entire thing, money is whatever, integrity to the game now that is where true honor is at


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iFacepunch

Senior Member

10-11-2012

Now will the 20% apply to the possible $1,000,000 purse? If there is no punishment then cheating early to win late is going to be THE norm.


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Frostburner

Senior Member

10-11-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RamserX View Post
yea the punishments for the two don't match up at all. it's pretty dumb, however wasn't the mlg punishment handed down from mlg and backed by riotinstead of being directly handed down by riot? can't remember
which means they agreed with the ruling.

If you're going to push LoL as an e-sport, you need to be tougher on the punishment and be consistent. If you supported/backed MLG's decision to DQ and take the money away for unverified claims to cheating then you need to be swift with the DQ and removing winnings from the blatant and obvious cheaters, which riot has identified and agreed that they cheated.

And in soccer (football), a foul with malicious intent or done for the sake of fouling usually results in a Red Card, ie complete removal of player for the game and following game (or two, i forget exactly on how many games they're banned from afterwards) as well as the team being required to play 1 man down.

Someone mentioned blatant cheating in a Sanctioned Chess match results in DQ and lifetime ban.

oh and while you're at it... why don't you guys adopt what Valve does for Dota 2 and use Soundproof boxes with vision infront and limited to their sides.