World Playoffs - Rule Violations

First Riot Post
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Jabe

Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by U2Q SafetyX View Post
...

Well, they DID look at the minimap and their standing in the tournament was NOT jeopardized. Hm....
jeop·ard·ize - to put in jeopardy; hazard; risk; imperil

Their tournament standing WAS at risk. So Tiza's language is correct.


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Cadavir

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by heavnlyhell View Post
it is pretty funny how both teams looked at the screen, but one has to pay fine because one obtained information while the other didn't. So is looking at the screen against the rules or obtaining information?

Besides, Riot should've came up with better design than players able to look at the livestream screen when they turn their head slightly.... Besides, weren't they streaming it using the spectator mode? which should have 3 min delay?
During tournaments they do not use a 3 minute delay. And Dyrus was left with a warning. he checked to see if it was possible to cheat before they restarted the match. Frost's player, however, looked AFTER the match was restarted.


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Elenia Andras

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJay Saint View Post
So they just get a small fine? However, at MLG both Curse and Dignitas are completely stripped of their prize money and disqualified from the tournament for allegations with NO HARD EVIDENCE of possibly sharing prize money.
"Small fine"? If Frost went on to win the tournament, that's going to be TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND US DOLLARS fine (20% of the 1 million prize money). Even the current $30,000 fine is already almost the same as total money that Curse/Dignitas would've won combined ($20,000 and $12,000 respectively). So don't be stupid and consider this as a "small fine" to Azubu Frost.

It's stupid to always demand for disqualification for "cheating". I'm not condoning any cheating, but punishments need to be also taking consideration of how serious the action is.

In basketball, if one player totally smacked an opponent (e.g.: Andrew Bynum clothesline Barea two years ago), you punished the player with suspensions and fines, not disqualify the whole team.
In boxing, you hit your opponent below the belt, well you got point reduction. You bit your opponent's ear, you got disqualified.
In Formula One, you caused an accident that took out another racer out of the race while you're still racing, well you could either get black flagged, or simply a stop and go pit stop, or even a very lenient drive through penalty.

Yes, it has been concluded that Frost cheated. But the overall gain out of the whole thing is not super large. It was a stupid thing that Woong did, there's no question about it. But a minimum of 30k fine and a maximum of 200k fine is A LOT and appropriate.


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Ibuki Suika

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Senior Member

10-10-2012

Good show. Glad to see this was thoroughly investigated and also glad to see that it wasnt quite as bad as people were saying. Only one real punishment.


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Alex3omg

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Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RamserX View Post
so you think just because riot set the stage up horribly, that the players shouldn't be held accountable for their actions?

There's a major difference between looking at the screen where nothing hurts the game and when everything gets changed because of it
If they proved that AZF had a spotter in the crowd signaling them somehow then that would be cheating. There's a reason coaches hold their clipboards up when discussing plays- because there's no rule against SEEING THINGS. You can't put the god damned minimap up next to them and say "ok guys, honour system here."

How can we guarantee they were never influenced by the crowd? Or a reflection on their screen? Or a Fiddlesticks who dances whenever a gank is about to happen? This is just posturing by Riot, trying to look legit and appease the rabid NA fans.

And no, there is no difference between looking and gaining something and looking and gaining nothing. Do you think if someone in, say, Soccer picks up the ball with his hands- but doesn't score- it's ok? Oh warning buddy you didn't score so npnp. STILL A RULE BROKEN.


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Gigadunker

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Plainview View Post
I think it's pretty obvious that Dyrus was going to lose that lane regardless of what happened.
I have to agree here. Dyrus played like **** both games against AzF, and he was doing so against one of the most difficult tops in the game. He overextended constantly against a Mao jungle like he just wanted to lose.


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Phanman

Senior Member

10-10-2012

You know what, I'm ok with these results.


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ploki122

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mono Air View Post
First off, the whole venue setup was a mess. The placement of the humongous mini map screens made it too easy for players to potentially turn around and cheat. That being said, even if AZF did gain an advantage by looking at the screen (jayce would've checked the brush anyway), its so improbable that TSM would beat AZF. Why would Riot dq AZF when clearly it was their fault for the venue setup and TSM would have never beaten AZF.
Well... not blaming someone because it was "easy" to abuse isn't really a good point... Also, what fact is there that AZF would've won game #2? The reason, imo, TSM lost so blatantly is because they were messed up by AZF's cheating. First of all, their lack of presence everywhere backfired against them. Next, they knew that AZF had cheated, they told Riot and, at that time, Riot simply brushed it off (at least, that's what it looked like... and no blame on them, since there was basically nothing [or too much actually] to do at that time...). That, in my opinion again, since I am not TSM and I am not a psychology PhD either, can have made TSM play in a sub-optimal way.

Next, sure Jayce might have still checked it... but what if he didn't? and what if MF used her Make It Rain to brush check? She might have lacked the mana for a later poke... Or she might have played more carefully not knowing that there was no trouble bot. Every single things that you do will yield results and can snowball into a victory... If TSM really wasn't a threat while siting in that top brush, Jayce wouldn't have checked it.

So, basically, AZF's cheating yielded themselves a direct and psychological advantage. As for the real impact it had, I can say it could be similar to "CLG.EU vs WE"'s network outage... WE was in the lead and they did lose that advantage with the reset... Could WE have cleaned it 2-0? Maybe... did CLG.EU manage to comeback the time after that? Clearly... And they had really been destroyed in the first 1.5 matchs... So what I'm trying to say isn't that AZF would've lost... it's that AZF could've lost...



Inb4 TSM fanboy, I really ain't it's been 8 months that I wait for them to lose... God I hate the pillow and TSM's overconfident attitude.


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George MichaeI

Member

10-10-2012

They know too well how to manipulate the mob... 30k isn't much on a tournament with this much prize money, but it is going to charity, so people who think the penalty is too minor will feel guilty if they aren't on board.


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Dilwoah

Junior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmbushIntheDark View Post
honestly cant believe frost is getting away with a slap on the wrist here.
30,000$ isn't exactly a slap on the wrist.. that's like most peoples yearly income.