@Morello: Let's talk Varus

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Dragoon Feld

Senior Member

10-22-2012

Ive build varus as a AS/hybrid and got my first penta with it. getting DFG/abotu 400 ap. will make the quiver hit like a boss.


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TRIFLINGNOME

Member

10-22-2012

bump for showing my favorite champ some love

As far as contributing to the discussion of varus, his I feel the weakest part of his kit is his passive. I find it very difficult to proc before a teamfight, and even if I do find some random creep in lane on the way to the fight, or in the jungle when the fight is about to start, it is only used for a small fraction of the time as I am usually casting my R or throwing down my E (or even both).

Instead of trying to lower his cooldowns or buff the damage on his abilities, try giving him an attack speed buff that scales with his level or how many champion kills he has gotten so far (AS version of BT? that sounds pretty unique). You are still keeping the idea of the passive (more attack speed) while making it more available during all stages of the game.

If redesigning his passive still doesn't get him to a good place, I would recommend buffing his blighted quiver. Giving him more flat magic damage per rank sounds like a, simpler, cleaner fix to me then messing with the ratios of the percent damage that goes along with the blight proc.


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Temjen

Senior Member

10-22-2012

"Whenever Varus slays a minion/champion, or detonates 3 stacks of blight, he gets XX% attack speed for Y seconds."

Booyah.


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MisakiTakahashi

Senior Member

10-22-2012

What if his CD's lowered when the trigger blight stacks? Just throwing the idea out there.


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Venekathas

Junior Member

10-22-2012

So I play Varus a lot. He's my main ADC. After reading about half of these posts I'd like to give my opinion on what buffs would be good, but would need to be toyed with for balance.

Passive:
2 things. Either boost the percentages, or swap it with W to make it an on demand steroid. And make Blighted Quiver level as we do.

Q: Lower the cooldown overall, or determined on time of charge. AKA, charge for 4 seconds, 4-8 seconds longer. Charge for 1 second, 0 seconds longer. Bring the cost down a bit and curb back the "through minion" damage clipping.

W: A few ideas here. I think it would be possible to make this an active skill, like Expunge. Let us detonate the stacks we put on the enemy. That will force them to play a bit more defensive and not push us over completely. Of course these stacks wont do as much if they aren't detonated by another ability, so it'll just be more poke. And feel free to put a Cooldown on the detonate.

E: As it is, it works pretty well. It doesn't really need the vision aspect, since we have our Q to tell us for sound. People are confused on one point of this though. After you detonate stacks with E, or just use E in general, it will automatically detonate ONE more stack. Possible changes? Maybe remove the cast time. It's a good point that you can either use it to escape, or the half second you used to cast it, is what got you caught.

R: My ideas for this synergizes with the changes to W. I think when a target is struck by your ultimate, they should gain a single stack of Blighted Quiver, then when you attack targets infected, the stacks detonate automatically until they are able to move again. Or, alternatively, when they are infected, any time they they are hit by a skill, they gain a stack. R- 1 stack E - 2 stacks Q - 3 stacks. Ulti ends, Detonate. This would have a lot of AoE Teamfight burst, but if it's 1v1, you can use the idea of your stacks are automatically detonated when they are infected. So maybe you can balance that by only the additional infected targets gain stacks on abilities, so you can just auto attack your main target, spread stacks with your abilities, and then use your W to detonate.

Anyway you mix and match those, those are my ideas. Take and leave some of course, because to put in all of them would make him broken as all hell. But yeah, those are my ideas.


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Stinkmeaner IGM

Junior Member

10-22-2012

What would happen if you increased the number of stacks possible (adjusting the proc damage per stack) and made the quiver damage a DoT that is ended once a skill is used to proc the %hp damage. That might create situations (with a little adjusting of cooldowns and damage) where 3 auto attacks + a skill isn't always the optimal strategy.

Another Idea that came to mind would be changing his passive to be that skills have a flat cooldown reduction based on the number of quiver stacks on the target but %hp damage isn't increased by additional stacks, so then the decision becomes "do I keep auto attacking so that I have shorter cool downs (ideal for a longer fights) or do I sacrifice the opportunity to do greater sustained damage over longer fights to do be more bursty up front?" I can also see this opening up a little more build diversity based on which play style one prefers .

Just my 2 cents.


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XElement

Senior Member

10-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Allowing Varus to use Piercing Arrow a bit more in the midst of a fight would be nice, definitely with you there. I'd want to avoid something that effectively punished you for charging it though - at the moment you're already sacrificing a bit of movement speed and possibly auto attack time, having a higher CD on top of that would be quite punitive.
Then why not lower the CD if you charge it for longer?
Isn't that more rewarding? If you max it fully you get to use it faster, while if you use it for the burst on blight it has a longer CD instead.

I mean you technically lose some AA damage when charging it and MS. So I think you should lower the CD if fully charged. THough, then I guess you would have to worry about how well it is in lane phrase since he can spam it more (as long as his mana holds up...or if you give him a soraka he will be annoying)


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Hidden Sniper

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Senior Member

10-22-2012

Well, he seems really balanced. I mean REALLY balanced. I wouldn't change anything about his kit. I think most people don't give him enough credit. He does things better than Vayne could for instance. The only time Vayne will have more damage is against someone with over 100mr (with the three shot thing). In return he has a better lane period, poke, utility and a cc ult that 100% of the damage can spread along with the bind duration. I foresee him being heavily played in the near future or very soon. On another note, the last 4 pentakills I've witnessed have all been from someone playing Varus.

The only issue I see, is his ult. Maybe if you let it spread if it doesn't hit anything at the end of it's range? Seems like the ult is kinda buggy still also. I hear reports of people having issues with it every now and then. I personally see nothing horribly wrong with how his kit works... I mean Vayne's and Caitlyn's kits is such more of a mess compared to his (man mentioning them a lot). I like playing Varus when I actually get to adc... One more thing that "may" make him Op though... Reducing some cast time on his aoe slow, right now it seems... Sluggish, or like it lacks a tad bit of range, something like that...


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Blackus Maximus

Junior Member

10-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharag View Post
I'm not going to argue about his strength/weakness or how OP/UP he might be, rather, I would like to talk about his design and how it feels to play him.

I don't like the way his Blighted Quiver works. It's not very fulfilling in regards to the rest of his kit.

Whenever I try to "optimize" my play and use an ability after every 3 auto-attacks, I can't help but feel bad.

If I trigger the stacks with Q, it's most often the shortest Q and thus minimal damage from Q. That feels kinda wasted. Not to mention that you want to save that Q to snipe low-hp fleeing enemies when they flash away from you (very, very often).

Using R, his ult to trigger it is also in rare situations as you will most often want to use that ult as initiation or help in escape.

So, you pretty much have just E which is also often better to use earlier in fights due to the utility it provides.


I know these are choices to increase his gameplay, but I think their "cost" is too high. Whichever choice I make, I often wonder would the other choice be better and I always feel like I lost something.

Maybe that's just me. What do you think? What do other Varus players think?


P.S. I know you (and all the other Rioters) are now swamped with the Championship, but I'd be grateful if you could share your thoughts on the matter (now or after the finals, same to me). Thanks!
I have to kindly disagree with you. I feel that Varus is in a great spot where he is right now. I saw another thread asking for Varus' w and passive to be switched around. I felt awful last night just thinking about what that would mean. IMHO he isn't intended to be a duelist like mf is, but I pesonally feel he has the MOST team presence out of any adc. His entire kit just screams team fights.

His passive is what makes Varus well.. Varus! This is one of the things I love about Varus. Speaking just base stats, he should be weaker than other adcs. But during the laning phase you can last hit a minion for the bonus 20% attack speed to get your three AA's off and then trigger the % based damage from his W with a quick Q shot. But what I feel it really does is reward focus of a single target in a team fight. that 40% attack speed increase is massive and really makes him a devastating adc in team fights as well as an excellent champ for cleaning up.

His Q pierces through targets and can be charged to clean up whoever escaped with low health. As well as a good means to quickly set off the percentage based damage on his w.

His W is great for burst after you shoot 3 AA's into someone and then hit them with an uncharged Q which roughly has the same range as his auto attacks. But it even has good synergy with his ult, in which case you hit someone with it, target someone else on the team and if his ult travels to the person you have been targeting it does in fact set off the percentage damage.

|His E is probably his heavily based "duelist" move. The healing reduction prevents the opponent from healing, as well as the slow prevents them from dodging your Q in a duel.

His R is in fact what I feel gives Varus all that team presence that other adcs don't have. A team wide snare works incredibly well with many other champs' ults ie. Amumu, Sona, Galio, ect...

What I gathered from your post if that you seem to be dueling a decent amount on him and have an issue with over extending or positioning (using his ult as an escape).

I personally feel that a champion that works out well when played properly and really emphasizes on teamwork, he doesn't feel to me the need to be toyed with. Why not leave what is fine alone? Just my two cents.


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xethik

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Meddler, has there been any more discussion regarding Varus? Is reducing his cooldowns something we are likely to see any time soon? Maybe some CDR on his W (though that's probably too much passive on one text) or reducing cooldowns on popping Blight? I agree his cooldowns are too long, but I'd personally like to see some more interesting ways to reduce his cooldowns rather than a number squish.