Support items and wards need a retool for solo queue! The system does not work.

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Raptoreyes

Senior Member

10-08-2012

Breif overview: Item changes for supports

1----- Add an item with gold per ten and a certain number of layable wards that refresh on item cooldown. The item should have lots of CDR and gold per 10 but little in the way of AP damage on it.

For instance take a Kages lucky pick and a heart of gold and combine it into an item that gives... 10 Gold Per 10 sec
20% CDR
10-15 mana regen per 5 sec
Unique Active lays 3 wards before going on cooldown for whatever number of secconds is "balanced."


You could adjust Morrelos evil tome's stats to do this, or make a new item. Supports need something that indirectly ups thier damage and allows them to force lane combat tempo into high gear early (while the damage a support does is still feared). Right now supports do almost nothing early due to resource constraints related to laying down wards. Wards have almost classic "power without game play" problems and are a major reason why the "boring power" of wards is forced on supports.

2-- Add increasing costs to each purchase of a ward so first one is 75 or 150 depending on type of ward and the cost increases by a percentage with each additional ward bought. The percentage would have to be high enough to prevent dumping all the warding on to one or even two players.

3-- If increasing costs do not work at least make wards cause an internal cooldown every time they are placed so that ramps up fast enough so beyond 2-3 wards the cooldown alone makes wards start looking like summoner spells. ALL 5 teamates should ward not just one or two. People should NOT hog all the good jobs or items in game at the expense of the suports gold pool.


So lets see the current meta is that supports give up nearly their entire gold income to the carry and feel pretty darn useless apart from the sight they give via wards. For instance Soraka's infuse has a great AP ratio and could be used as a great harrassment tool....BUT runing around with nothing more then a Heart of Gold and a Philo Stone "feels terrible" and you as a solo support basically sacrifice your game play for a carry who may or may not perform. Worse your CC and controbution as a support pretty much goes unoticed when your winning but just miss a heal or badly time a buff and suddenly people are angry at you.... a support cannot "win" in solo queue only feel put upon to do the worst jobs for the sake of the almighty physical carry.

Don't get me wrong support in duo queue and full 5 mans can be fun but mainly because you become the combat controler over Ventrilo, Teamspeak or Skype. Without voice chat however being a support is "anti fun". Unfortunatly people need to farm IP for new champs and cannot always play support with friends and worse anything that gets thrown bot lane with the ADC will be asked to play support no matter what the charicter was actually designed for. A quick way to make your ADC mad on a tank like Galio for example is to take an approprate amount of last hits for yourself. Everybody wants to be supported but in soloqueue NOBODY wants to BE a support. Is this not terrible game design!!! Can we not make changes?

Early (failed) attempts by Riot to improve itemization....

"Itemization for supports is boring!" The heart of gold and Philo stone early are mandatory and make perfectly good support skills hit like new born kittens after level 3. Riot to its credit tried to increase gold income via a gold per 10 rune book options. Unfortunatly supports need either CDR or AP early and that is what most support rune books are made of, Simply because support skills have rather high cooldowns relitivive to the destructive power you actually realize from the skill.

Riot did try to turn Morellos Evil tome into a support item. They added Kages lucky pick to the recipie but the gold per 10 mod turns off once you combine the item. Worse Morrellos Evil tome is to expensive to complete before the team fight phase.... precisely when its not needed anymore. Solution lower the cost of Morrelos Evil tome and simply remove the AP bonus but allow the gold per 10 bonus to remain on the item. Most supports are hungry for mana regen and CDR in the early game to use their spells often enough, to push opposing players out of lane. It simply should be harder for the ADC to farm but supports do such terrible damage that most are ignoreable after a few levels unless they pack serious heals(Soraka, Nidalee) or their CC is way above average (Alistar)


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vortical42

Senior Member

10-09-2012

That item would be nice, but you are dreaming if you think adding an increasing cost to ward purchasing is going to encourage non-supports to buy them.


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The Blue Jelly

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Gp10 and Wards... item ****s money, so no; every lane would buy one in high level play unless you make it prohibitively expensive, in which case supports would be unable to buy it until super late game- where the problem it's trying to fix would be moot.


We are not changing Morello's. Morello's is not, never has been, and never will be a support item- or be intended to be a support item.
Morello's used to be the active-less version of DFG; it was what DFG would be without the %cur life spell. When they reworked it (and DFG), they made it into the AP version of Exec Calling.

The Kage's component of Morello's was to give it more of a parallel to DFG and give supports that were buying Kage's a non-AP/Spellpen-reliant option for late game build path of Kage's.

This DID NOT make it a support item. This made Kage's more attractive for supports.



Increasing the cost of wards in any way (which an increasing cost based on quantity would do) would screw over the support more. Support buys the most wards. While in hgher level games everyone buys some wards, the support *still* buys the most wards, and *still* must sustain themselves on primarily assists and Gp10. So not just no, Hell No. This change *might* help some people to realize they need to buy wards, but the thing is they should be doing that already. All this would do is make things worse in the case where they're a problem.



Once again, this would not solve the problem, only punish those that understand that everyone should be warding. The worst case would become worse, the average case would be worsened (as the one buying most of the wards gets punished), and the best case would be worsened (ditto).

The only possible way to break people of not buying wards is to include them in the tutorial with a scripted gank. GL Riot on even *trying* to make that work.



I already discussed what Morello's is above. If you want to make a support item you're making a new item. Morello's is not and never will be a support item.


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Sonic Nova

Senior Member

10-10-2012

I've already thought of an item that I might just make a full thread on, it's an early game "token" item. It provides no benefits except for 2 unique passives. The first passive in much like RoA's, in that after a few minutes it increases, but not in HP, MP, or AP, it increases in gold generation. At first it has something abysmal like +.25-.50 Gp10, but after a few minutes, it'll increase to, say, +5-10 Gp10. The second passive is a flat +5% CDR. It'd be a good starting item for almost anyone, with an immediate +5% CDR and extra gold income, but it'd be prime for supports as the extra gold income, combined with other Gp10 items, would make buying wards easier and less problematic. Stacking this item would be futile as the unique passives can't and won't stack. Having this item have a lower gold cost would benefit, so right off the bat a support can buy some wards. I'm thinking 315g would be appropriate, as a support will generally max the mastery "wealth" for the bonus 40g at start. This would allow a support to buy this item, 2 sight wards, and a pot of his/her choosing.

Now, onto the wards, I'd like to use the template of Wriggle's Lantern, with a mix of multicast spells. The item would be able to place down 3 wards at no cost. After placing one, the item will have a delay period, refreshing with each ward placed within a set amount of time (meaning if you place one and don't place the other within a 10 second period, then the wards you could've placed will become inaccessible until the item returns off of CD), after the wards are placed, the item will go onto CD for 3 minutes, allowing for another 3 wards to be placed. The item could possibly offer some auras for support (+HP/MP regen maybe?), and can be upgraded later to deploy vision wards instead of sight wards. I don't know how this item would/should be priced, but it'd have to be reasonable for supports. Just some thoughts I'd like to throw out there.